DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

[Ln X]

DS9 is horrible because the plots don't think for you, you don't get instant gratification by watching the first few episodes of season 1. It is not fair on impatient, channel-hopping people who have to wait until season 3 for things to get good. There's no female characters with really tight suits exposing lots of their fleshy cleavage, so that ain't fair on young single nerds and loners. It's all so dark and grim as well, people wanted pie-in-the-sky squeaky clean TNG and they got this? There's so much spirituality, boo hiss! Not enough planet of the week episodes! And Morn's a woman? No wait...

Now give me something were I can sit in my couch, stuff food in my mouth, watch stuff getting blown up, and getting turned on by the blatantly sexy female characters...

Yeah so that's my attempt at fake-trolling.

 

[Sykonee]

DS9 is horrible because the plots don't think for you, you don't get instant gratification by watching the first few episodes of season 1. It is not fair on impatient, channel-hopping people who have to wait until season 3 for things to get good. There's no female characters with really tight suits exposing lots of their fleshy cleavage, so that ain't fair on young single nerds and loners. It's all so dark and grim as well, people wanted pie-in-the-sky squeaky clean TNG and they got this? There's so much spirituality, boo hiss! Not enough planet of the week episodes! And Morn's a woman? No wait...

Now give me something were I can sit in my couch, stuff food in my mouth, watch stuff getting blown up, and getting turned on by the blatantly sexy female characters...

Yeah so that's my attempt at fake-trolling.

Tsk, we already had a thread for that.

 

[Ln X]

Tsk, we already had a thread for that.

Whoops! I got this one confused!

 

[23skidoo]

DS9 is horrible because the plots don't think for you, you don't get instant gratification by watching the first few episodes of season 1. It is not fair on impatient, channel-hopping people who have to wait until season 3 for things to get good. There's no female characters with really tight suits exposing lots of their fleshy cleavage, so that ain't fair on young single nerds and loners. It's all so dark and grim as well, people wanted pie-in-the-sky squeaky clean TNG and they got this? There's so much spirituality, boo hiss! Not enough planet of the week episodes! And Morn's a woman? No wait...

Now give me something were I can sit in my couch, stuff food in my mouth, watch stuff getting blown up, and getting turned on by the blatantly sexy female characters...

Although I caught the wink, you've actually very clearly summed up why serialized shows, especially with SF, are such hard sells today. Too many people want stuff blowing up every 5 minutes and not having to think. DS9 definitely got hit with this back in the day, but the same treatment was received by Farscape, B5, Galactica, Lost -- hell even Doctor Who this past season and that show only works with 13-episode seasons. Someone said that the only reason why people watch Game of Thrones is because they're willing to sit through the "soap opera" angles for the sex scenes. Wish I could call B.S. on that but I'm not completely in disagreement. The Blu-ray comes with thousands of words of explanatory on-screen text in order to help viewers understand the plot. I'm willing to go through the effort, but how many people just zone out, play with Twitter with the show as background noise, and only pay attention when someone gets their head cut off or a pair a boobs shows up on screen? Would DS9 been better received if the first episode had Kira boinking Odo in the first 5 minutes?

It's one of the weirdest contradictions in our society. People keep crying for more arc shows and long-form storytelling. Yet when DS9 or BSG or Once Upon a Time comes along, you get people complaining that they aren't shows that wrap up in bite-sized 42-minute chunks. Fortunately there's enough folks who actually enjoy this sort of storytelling that (4 times out of 10, anyway) a show like Fringe or Lost might survive, even if its fans have to put up with dismissive terms like "sci-fi soap opera". They happen to like the fact that a show that requires them to pay attention might actually make them a little smarter.

Alex

 

[Sjaddix]

Well Game of Thrones is also a popular book series so that is a built in audience of a couple million right there then u get the additional people who like to watch sword fights and sex scenes. Plus some who are interested in Good Fantasy. Those 3 things in combination get u a nice audience. So Game of Thrones much like True Blood is an HBO Flagship Show.

 

[Cyke101]

Me? I don't trust people who read, like, 2 posts of a 26 page thread and comment on them as if the topic had not evolved in the two intervening months...thus setting the entire thread back WEEKS.

Seriously, people, let's not go back to where we were on page 2, arguing with people who are only here to upset the apple cart.

You guys have been having an interesting discussion. Just continue on with that and ignore those who come in to make one-liner 'agreements' with the original poster...who is long gone himself without a soul in the universe shedding a tear.

Well, firstly, that wasn't my first post in this thread and I've read considerably more than the first two posts.

I wasn't trying to set the thread 'back' in any way but the thought occurred to me regarding the early seasons of each show and I put it in writing. I thought it may encourage CAPTAINMAX (not the OP) to persevere with the show.

I'm sorry you are annoyed but you could have just ignored my post...

She does have a point though about setting the thread back. She could ignore it, sure, but odds are someone else won't, and if the discussion has developed on the points of other posters but you set the thread back and then someone else takes your lead, you essentially undo the tone of the thread that took several posts to progress.

For example, sometimes threads on this very board can get pretty heated, but sometimes two groups of opposing posters eventually and painstakingly see eye to eye because of pages of posts, or someone backs down, or evidence is uncovered, whatever. But if you're new to the thread and don't bother reading what came before, and if you repeat the same point that set off the argument in the first place, people can latch on to that and then you've got the same old tensions revived once again.

As it is, PKTrekGirl is a moderator, and part of their job is maintaining the peace on their forum. And if the above happens, that can become a cause for concern.

 

[Silvercrest]

Fortunately there's enough folks who actually enjoy this sort of storytelling that (4 times out of 10, anyway) a show like Fringe or Lost might survive, even if its fans have to put up with dismissive terms like "sci-fi soap opera". They happen to like the fact that a show that requires them to pay attention might actually make them a little smarter.

Uh, not want smar-ter. Want in-stant gr... grat... grati...
wait, what was ques-tion again?

 

[Relayer1]

Me? I don't trust people who read, like, 2 posts of a 26 page thread and comment on them as if the topic had not evolved in the two intervening months...thus setting the entire thread back WEEKS.

Seriously, people, let's not go back to where we were on page 2, arguing with people who are only here to upset the apple cart.

You guys have been having an interesting discussion. Just continue on with that and ignore those who come in to make one-liner 'agreements' with the original poster...who is long gone himself without a soul in the universe shedding a tear.

Well, firstly, that wasn't my first post in this thread and I've read considerably more than the first two posts.

I wasn't trying to set the thread 'back' in any way but the thought occurred to me regarding the early seasons of each show and I put it in writing. I thought it may encourage CAPTAINMAX (not the OP) to persevere with the show.

I'm sorry you are annoyed but you could have just ignored my post...

She does have a point though about setting the thread back. She could ignore it, sure, but odds are someone else won't, and if the discussion has developed on the points of other posters but you set the thread back and then someone else takes your lead, you essentially undo the tone of the thread that took several posts to progress.

For example, sometimes threads on this very board can get pretty heated, but sometimes two groups of opposing posters eventually and painstakingly see eye to eye because of pages of posts, or someone backs down, or evidence is uncovered, whatever. But if you're new to the thread and don't bother reading what came before, and if you repeat the same point that set off the argument in the first place, people can latch on to that and then you've got the same old tensions revived once again.

As it is, PKTrekGirl is a moderator, and part of their job is maintaining the peace on their forum. And if the above happens, that can become a cause for concern.

Fair enough - point taken.

Apologies to all concerned...

 

[STEPhon IT]

Hmm. For some they think it was a good show when Worf became a cast member, but for me I have a different opinion on that.

I thought the first three seasons of DS9 to be ground breaking television. It was definitely different from the classic Trek and TNG and it was meant to be; the show was to explore social issues without the fail safe of flying away or attempting to end it after one episode. The officers were raw and were accustomed to what was tried and true in Federation Space, but these explorers had to adjust very fast to the continuing issues going on in Bajoran Space and the mysteries of the Wormhole and the exploration of the Gamma Quadrant.

I thought the producers started listening to the loud complaints from a few small fans with loud voices who wanted the show to be something that it was not. Getting greedy, trying to welcome those fans to the show, WHO NEVER GAVE IT A CHANCE & RAN OFF TO VOYAGER, they brought in the Defiant and a BORG type villain to water those idiots' thirsts. When that failed they even bend over backwards by casting Worf in the fourth season.

I found those seasons to be the most frustrating sights of TV in my life. Because what I thought of the cast for being patient and smart based on the experiences they've been through started doing a lot of stupid things which was engineered by the dreadful writing. I thought it was brilliant to identlfy DS9 Torak Nor to be a 100 years old station that could NEVER engage in battle based on it's design and the shield integrity could never handle the turbulent stress.

Also the Dominion would never attack one of their own, so as long as Odo was in that area of space they would not harm them but the DS9 crew can never explore their space.

The new writers threw that away and had the Klingons do a lot of stupid things to provoke a war against the Federation. Have DS9 be battle ready even when the design itself contradicts this. I'll give you a hint, just have a warship ram into the pylon structures; it would de-stablize the integrity. Again this new version was playing by different rules and more blood thirsty at that. Peace be damned and fight fight fight until it's boring ending.

I witnessed all of the characters who I cared for and loved became one dimensional. Dukat was a multifaceted character and unpredictable, and later became the stereotypical villain. The prophets had to succumb to the boring Angels & Demons cliche' and had a Pah' wraith running around. The characters never seem to do anything smart anymore, just fire away.

Where some characters didn't require a relationship to be whole but now desperately needed it; it seemed even DAX was relegated to this kind of non sense and limited the kind of stories can be done. AND why the hell did it had to be WORF???

Mining the wormhole was a huge abandonment for me because I knew at that point I would never see a Gamma Quadrant story again. It would just be about the never ending War and more death and violence and stupid actions. I was appalled at the end of the war; all Odo had to do to stop the killing and the war was simply link with the Mother changling. The writers forgot that they did this many times before during their version of DS9, and begs the question why Odo couldn't simply do that before before all of the needless death through out the quadrant???

Don't hate me for what I've written about that show, I just wanted you, who like the show when it was guns blazing, to understand that not everyone agrees with your thinking the show was better when it became the WAR show. And just because you folks loved what was done DOESN'T mean I have to, nor does it mean the show needed it. If some would open their minds just a little, they were people LIKE ME who loved DS9 as it was before all the meddling. I own the first 3 seasons on dvd and still watched them and enjoy them, but never bought the rest. I've watched the other seasons again on Netflix and it just saddens me of what became of it.

The beauty of the show was that it was branching off where viewers would see Vulcans and other well known races seldom and see new and fresh civilizations every week and didn't have to bend over backwards to cater. Something I respected with Voyager until it too brought the Borg and other aliens we all were accustomed to. Some times I feel the people who saved Star Trek are at times their own worst enemy to Trek. But that's being mean and I apologize.

I loved Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and hated what became of it.

 

[Maurice]

STEPhon IT. You're reanimating dead threads. The Moderators prefer we not start posting in threads which have been inactive for over a year, and even six months is sometimes pushing it. They prefer that we start new topics than resurrecting the deceased.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I think your characterization of the show is incorrect, and you're being just as shallow as the people who hated it automatically because it wasn't on a ship. I didn't like it when it was first on because I preferred TNG's idealism. DS9 certainly isn't beyond criticism, but if you make the claim that they stopped being clever when the war started you're just plain wrong.

And you seem to be defending yourself against imaginary attacks. Nobody is attacking you or anyone else for not liking the war arc or saying it's an invalid opinion to prefer the early episodes. You're responding to people who don't exist.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I thought the producers started listening to the loud complaints from a few small fans with loud voices who wanted the show to be something that it was not. Getting greedy, trying to welcome those fans to the show, WHO NEVER GAVE IT A CHANCE & RAN OFF TO VOYAGER, they brought in the Defiant and a BORG type villain to water those idiots' thirsts. When that failed they even bend over backwards by casting Worf in the fourth season.

Please feel free to dislike DS9. There are threads about Voyager and Enterprise and, indeed, TNG in which people express their frustration and disappointment with those series. However, this assertion is demonstrably not true. All the earlies interviews of Michael Piller about the show reveal that he wished DS9 to be different from TOS and TNG, particularly in terms of more high politics and stories that could only be done in a stationary setting. His push is reflected in the ongoing presence of Cardassians and in episodes like In the Name of the Prophets in the very first season. Piller handed over the keys to Ira Steven Behr, who was interested in expanding on the same elements. It was Behr who pushed to introduce a small battle ship in order to expand on conflict in the plot and to make sure that the show could maintain a comparable look to Voyager, which had not yet aired. To make it clear: these were internal to the show, not reactions to real or perceived audience pressure. If there was any pressure, it was the studio that requested a resolutio of Bajoran politics and religion, something which Behr partially obliged.

 

[Inactive-Shapeshifter]

I'm here just to let me opinion (witch should be obvious given my avatar ).

So, that's it, i like DS9, it added a greater felling of realism, and i'm not only talking bout the way the series was darker, but it "charted" the galaxy! It added planets and locations that ware more explored, such as Cardassia, Bajor, Ferenginar, hell, even Earth was more explored! The societys of every world ware much deeper. They shaped entire cultures, costumes and even language in some cases.

In my opinion Star Trek would not be such a immersive universe without DS9.

People hate DS9 because their character are not heroes like on the previous shows. They have flows, they are not the "perfect starfleet officer" or the "perfect person", no, they have flows, they're more human. That's what meke me so fan of it. I can see some character and think "Ho dear, i did this too", or "yeah, i fell the same way!".

But then again, i'm fan off all Star Trek, and yes, Enterprise included.

 

[MacLeod]

Speaking off which aren't we due for the annual "What issue did Riker have with O'Brien" in the episode Defiant ?

 

[Maurice]

NECRO THREAD. Let it R.I.P.

 

[MacLeod]

It's really not dead, so long as we remember it.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

COnsidering the number of times a new "Voyager/Enterprise was bad/disappointing/contribed/did not reflect its premise" threads appear,reviving an old thread doesn't seem too threatening.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Speaking off which aren't we due for the annual "What issue did Riker have with O'Brien" in the episode Defiant ?

A third season episode it was a brilliant way to get O'Brien off of the Defiant. Plus, we get another fantastic chemistry of performances by Avery Brooks and Marc Alamo. Ahh THOSE WERE THE DAAAYS!

 

[STEPhon IT]

Please feel free to dislike DS9.

Huh? I've never said I disliked Star Trek: Deep Space Nine; the first three seasons were the best shows of the series to me. Glad there's a forum I can express my thoughts on it.

 

[Amaris]

NECRO THREAD. Let it R.I.P.

Well, it should be fine, since people are building on the discussion again, and in Stephon's defense, he had a nice big post to add to it. I'm not sure what the mods will say, but I figure now that the ball's rolling again, let it roll. Plus, it saves us from another thread that says DS9 is the worst Star Trek series ever.

That being said, on topic, I love DS9, and am a niner for life.