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DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

Severed Dreams would easily beat both of the VOY episodes that aired in the previous two weeks, and would also beat everything airing next week! :D

The episode is fast-paced and scripted very well. Everything is going to hell, leading to B5 finally declaring themselves independent. Earth's forces look to attack the station, before Delenn steps in at the end. Never is she more badass:

"Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else!"
 
I was never a huge B5 fan but I watched from the end of season 2 and I loved Severed Dreams.

That scene with Delenn was just fantastic. The show never really came near to that level of quality again though for me.
 
yes, quite a step from the yugoslavian softcore movies miss furlan starred in before, always far mellower. the problem with b5 is that they couldn't keep the pace, it used up all its energies, and burned out. crusade made a grand total of 12 episodes. b5 is dead, star trek alive.
 
What is there to say about Severed Dreams? It's a stunning episode that pulls off the difficult job of living up to the expectations Messages from Earth and Point of No Return created, and indeed exceeding them. It's one of those episodes where everything works, but its real secret is how it invests all the action with emotional weight. For me, Babylon 5 is easily the best of these three shows at this point and will remain so for some time.
 
yes, quite a step from the yugoslavian softcore movies miss furlan starred in before, always far mellower. the problem with b5 is that they couldn't keep the pace, it used up all its energies, and burned out. crusade made a grand total of 12 episodes. b5 is dead, star trek alive.
To be fair, Trek has been declared dead a number of times too. But yeah, B5's story was so bloody epic that it consequently made any subsequent spin-offs appear smaller in scale as a result, and unfortunately only generates interest for hardcore fans of that particular universe. It's something that tends to affect a lot of similar Grand Epic stories, like Lord Of The Rings. Heck, even Trek suffered from it occasionally too. General consensus has been that TNG was never as good again as it was after the epic Best Of Both Worlds, and had pretty much burned out by its seventh season.

Week 27: (Ending 04.14.96)
DS9 - Rules Of Engagement (Airdate 04.08.96)
VOY - Innocence (Airdate 04.08.96)
B5 - Ceremonies Of Light And Dark (Airdate 04.11.96)

The two Treks are fairly standard plotwise, but they're interesting in contrast to one another in the way they show just how different DS9 and VOY are at this point.

Rules may be a typical courtroom drama, but it's presented in a fairly fresh way. Not only do you have the 'breaking of the fourth wall' interviews (wonderful idea!), but also the fact much of the episode is centered around Worf, and he barely has any lines. Now, I know this wasn't exactly intentional, and some may feel hinders the plot, but I find it provides more mystery to his crimes. Sure, we may know Worf from seeing him in previous episodes, but do we really know him? By remaining silent in that characteristically brooding manner of his as evidence upon evidence is thrown against his innocence, it only escalates the viewer's doubt.

And then there's the final scene between him in Sisko. I find this to be one of Sisko's best 'Captain' moments yet. We've seen him large and in charge, being the hero, and all that; here, it's nothing more than a superior officer talking to someone under his command, firmly pointing out the mistakes and teaching him something in the process to grow as a capable officer himself. It's a great character moment, for both Sisko and Worf.

Innocence, on the other hand, doesn't do enough to shake up its standard plotline, in fact going so far as to keep things pedestrian and dully safe. In this case, it's the ol' 'Stick In The Mud Must Look After Children' bit, which leads to a couple nice Tuvok moments but is filled with so much dull filler (is an extended 'short' shuttle launch sequence scene really necessary?) that it makes such a chore to sit through. My God, man, after what B5 did less than a week ago with Severed Dreams, VOY's offering here is downright depressing. We went from that epic Event Episode, to an agreeably fresh take on the courtroom drama with DS9 ...to this. I'm not expecting the same level of grand scale, but at least do something unique with this story. Even the reverse aging twist felt tame.

Anyhow, B5 has its Denouement Episode this week, which after something like Severed Dreams is absolutely necessary. You really couldn't do anything that big without a proper introspective follow-up. Thus, it's more of a Character Episode, focusing on several characters' moods and feelings about where they currently stand after all the events of the past year. They do manage to work in a fairly good jeopardy plot too, as it helps tie into the overall arc: left-over Nightwatch causing havoc, Sheriden and Delenn's growing relationship. Oh, and where does B5 do its 'psycho casting'? Boy, do they ever find some good ones!

It's B5's week here. You get the emotional payoff from Severed Dreams, plus continued evolution of the series as the characters move forward -now with spiffy new uniforms! DS9 gave a good effort though, showing it has some clever tricks up its sleeve. VOY... decides to go into re-runs to lick its wounds.

Weekly Winner
B5

Next:
DS9 - Hard Time
B5 - Sic Transit Vir
 
Rules of Engagement is OK, certainly better than the last two Worf episodes, but I'm not crazy about it. I just don't think this Klingon thing has been well developed.

Ceremonies of Light and Dark, on the other hand, is great. It was the coda the preceding arc deserved and there's a definite emotional rawness to it and an excellent ending. Great Londo stuff as well. Repeat after me: "Because I have asked you. Because your loyalty to our people should be greater than your ambition. And because I have poisoned your drink."
 
It's B5's week here. You get the emotional payoff from Severed Dreams, plus continued evolution of the series as the characters move forward -now with spiffy new uniforms! DS9 gave a good effort though, showing it has some clever tricks up its sleeve. VOY... decides to go into re-runs to lick its wounds.

Weekly Winner
B5

Next:
DS9 - Hard Time
B5 - Sic Transit Vir
it's going to lick the competition soon again, tuvix is coming up. there's been a discussion raging over in the voy forum for weeks about it. one of the stories you think about for a long time.
 
yes, quite a step from the yugoslavian softcore movies miss furlan starred in before
:wtf:

Either this is a joke, or you really have no clue about Mira Furlan's career.
i watched one of them. she played a maid or so for a wealthy english couple on vacation in a yugoslavian nudist camp, and got involved in their amorous plays. if my memory serves me right, either her father or husband killed her in the end with a sledgehammer for defiling the family's honour. must be 25 years old.
 
it's going to lick the competition soon again, tuvix is coming up. there's been a discussion raging over in the voy forum for weeks about it. one of the stories you think about for a long time.
As far as I know, the debate over Tuvix has been raging since it first aired. I definitely recall hearing about "that controversial VOY episode" even way back. Despite reading the premise behind it, this will be my first time actually seeing it, so at least I'll finally discover what the 13 year fuss has been. But... that's still a few 'weeks' ahead. ;)
 
yes, quite a step from the yugoslavian softcore movies miss furlan starred in before
:wtf:

Either this is a joke, or you really have no clue about Mira Furlan's career.
i watched one of them. she played a maid or so for a wealthy english couple on vacation in a yugoslavian nudist camp, and got involved in their amorous plays. if my memory serves me right, either her father or husband killed her in the end with a sledgehammer for defiling the family's honour. must be 25 years old.
That's Lepota poroka.

Featuring a sex scene does not make a film "softcore porn". Or else you'd have to extend the definition to the majority of mainstream, independent and art-house cinema, including award-winning critical darlings... (although some critically acclaimed art-house festival films would actually be more in the hardcore porn territory, by that logic... Intimacy, Irreversible, etc.)

As for Mira Furlan's career, she was a very renowned, award-winning theatre, film, and TV actress in Yugoslavia.
 
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"Rules of Engagement" was one of the more interesting stories to come out of the half-hearted 'Klingons are bad-guys again!' arc DS9 had, and a good piece reflecting the rather rougher-around-the-edges take DS9 had on Worf (though let's never forget that TNG wasn't unwilling to let Worf made the wrong decision for the wrong reasons, as "The Enemy" ably proved.)

But yeah, B5's story was so bloody epic that it consequently made any subsequent spin-offs appear smaller in scale as a result, and unfortunately only generates interest for hardcore fans of that particular universe.
Not just because it's less epic, but also, to be honest, they weren't very good. Babylon 5 also lacks the cultural penetration that Star Trek's recieved - I first heard about it through the internet, via Americans, for one thing. It's mostly been the domain of the very geeky and I'm sure a decade off the air has not changed that much.
Heck, even Trek suffered from it occasionally too. General consensus has been that TNG was never as good again as it was after the epic Best Of Both Worlds, and had pretty much burned out by its seventh season.

Eh? First I've heard of that. I know the consensus is BOBW Part II is disappointing and none of the other TNG two-parters live up to BOBW Part I, but the third season is the first good year the show had and by season four it was really hitting its stride with one of the most accomplished seasons in the show's run.
 
Eh? First I've heard of that. I know the consensus is BOBW Part II is disappointing and none of the other TNG two-parters live up to BOBW Part I, but the third season is the first good year the show had and by season four it was really hitting its stride with one of the most accomplished seasons in the show's run.
Sorry, meant to say it never quite hit the same 'epic high' as BoBW. It did maintain a good level of consistency through S6 tho', so I stand corrected on that.
 
Not just because it's less epic, but also, to be honest, they weren't very good. Babylon 5 also lacks the cultural penetration that Star Trek's recieved - I first heard about it through the internet, via Americans, for one thing. It's mostly been the domain of the very geeky and I'm sure a decade off the air has not changed that much.

So like Farscape for the 90s? ;)
 
[DELETED]

But, to be honest, I prefer the writing on Farscape above and beyond most of what Babylon 5 ever did.
 
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Like Farscape of the early 2000s

You may want to reread him there. He was suggesting Babylon 5 was the 1990s equivalent of Farscape. Which is true.

But, to be honest, I prefer the writing on Farscape above and beyond most of what Babylon 5 ever did.
Quite so. The acting is also far more consistent across the board - Farscape has a better ensemble than what Babylon 5's rather uneven cast ever managed. B5 versus Farscape, now there's a story, or not.
 
Like Farscape of the early 2000s

You may want to reread him there. He was suggesting Babylon 5 was the 1990s equivalent of Farscape. Which is true.

But, to be honest, I prefer the writing on Farscape above and beyond most of what Babylon 5 ever did.
Quite so. The acting is also far more consistent across the board - Farscape has a better ensemble than what Babylon 5's rather uneven cast ever managed. B5 versus Farscape, now there's a story, or not.


I was thanks Kegg. I've decided I need to give Farscape a chance. I used to watch the odd episode a decade a go but didn't know what the hell was going on. This summer, Fascape and I will start dating.
 
B5 versus Farscape, now there's a story, or not.
Heh, or maybe so.

"Which show's special effects initially turned you off more: B5's dated CGI or Farscape's muppets?":p

Week 28: (Ending 04.21.96)
DS9 - Hard Time (Airdate 04.15.96)
B5 - Sic Transit Vir (Airdate 04.18.96)

An episode centered around Vir Coto? Man, if you'd had that advertised way back in S1 of B5, you can imagine how much of a ratings bomb that would have been. It goes to show just how well developed the character has become over the years that he can pretty much carry an hour of TV now, even if only just. It helps that the episode turns incredibly surreal and creepy as his future wife details just how much of a malicious murderer she is, assuming Vir to be the same. Still, this is very much a filler episode, even if it does go to some lengths to continue the build between Sheridan and Delenn.

It ain't a touch on DS9 this week though. It may be yet another Torture O'Brien Episode, but God is it ever a gut-wrenching hour. It slowly builds the tension and mystery of O'Brien's private torment, then releases it in one of the most heartbreaking scenes Trek's ever done. When O'Brien admits to his murder and the grief that's consumed his soul, you wonder if he'll ever escape the dark hole that he's created for himself.

Then it's not only immediately countered by Bashir's reassurance, but also an outlet of hope for O'Brien, a poignant stating of fact that his guilt is what distances him from casual, indifferent brutality. O'Brien was so focused on that one moment of instinct that it never occurred to him that his personal grief over the incident was also his road to self-realized redemption.

The scene is dramatically remarkable in the way it takes the viewer on such a roller-coaster of emotion. Only G'Kar's experience in Dust To Dust comes to mind in something of similar magnitude, though that's an entirely different range of emotion (er, and obviously amongst the shows I'm covering here). No way Vir dealing with a new 'wife' is going to be able to compete with that.

Weekly Winner
DS9

Next:
DS9 - Shattered Mirror
B5 - A Late Delivery From Avalon
 
The final five minutes of Hard Time are horrifying. This is probably the best 'O'Brien must suffer' episode. However looking back I'm a little let down they didn't even do some kind of follow up mention at all.
 
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