Spoilers DS9: The Long Mirage by David R. George III Review Thread

[jaime]

I agree with you on the replacements, they have all been bland. I would say, DS9 seems to have had more of them and less investment in them all at the same time than a series like TNG of VOY has. I personally love Ezri and the Aventine. I also don't want Sisko to be done with the Prophets and Bajor. Honestly the DS9 series was once my favorite, but it's just not anymore and I think it's because they lost so much of the crew that the place has stopped feeling like the series and what I loved.

It's really around the time of the 'worlds of' books that thing started going awry. By the time of the jump forward, the resemblance between where We Were when the series ended and what we are reading now got significantly less. Ezri and Bashir split (pointlessly and to my own and others distaste I suspect) Sisko goes through some stuff that essentially negates the character...less fun.

 

[Enterpriserules]

It's really around the time of the 'worlds of' books that thing started going awry. By the time of the jump forward, the resemblance between where We Were when the series ended and what we are reading now got significantly less. Ezri and Bashir split (pointlessly and to my own and others distaste I suspect) Sisko goes through some stuff that essentially negates the character...less fun.

I completely agree with this. Everything that made Sisko stand out and different has been stripped away from him and now he's just another "explorer" captain. That is not interesting at all. He was always so much more than that, exploring what it meant to be human and become a person of faith. Plus he had a real knack for commanding a station as well as bigger responsibilities, like in the War. He is honestly the best candidate of all the captains to be an admiral. Make him "of Bajor" again and the Emissary. Make him an Admiral and let Ezri and the Aventine explore the GQ.

 

[DimesDan]

Sorry about the confusion, I forgot that it was just speculation at this point.

That's not a problem, thanks for the apology and cheers for answering my question on that matter.

 

[Ronald Held]

Finally finished. Way too convoluted a subplot with Vic. I suppose it was deliberately done to declare him not sentient, either to keep ita a mystery or just to avoid future legal battles?

 

[jaime]

Finally finished. Way too convoluted a subplot with Vic. I suppose it was deliberately done to declare him not sentient, either to keep ita a mystery or just to avoid future legal battles?

He's a Vegas singer who avoided any legal troubles by schmoozing the investigator and pretending to know less than he does, and pretending to have been 'behind' things less than he was. Jupiter station lady even said she'll be back, so Vic will probably get a second date out of it too. You probably need Bashir handy in universe and in narrative terms to finally extract Vic from the holosuite, much how Moriarty is eternally linked to Data through his inception.

 

[Idran]

He's a Vegas singer who avoided any legal troubles by schmoozing the investigator and pretending to know less than he does, and pretending to have been 'behind' things less than he was. Jupiter station lady even said she'll be back, so Vic will probably get a second date out of it too. You probably need Bashir handy in universe and in narrative terms to finally extract Vic from the holosuite, much how Moriarty is eternally linked to Data through his inception.

I still like the idea that the investigator was right. Vic is more interesting a character to me if he's not yet sentient, just on the way there. We've seen tons of AIs that are already sentient, I want to see an AI that's on a road to sentience.

 

[Enterpriserules]

I am just so excited to have Vic back. It's one more step to DS9 feeling a little more familiar.

 

[jaime]

I still like the idea that the investigator was right. Vic is more interesting a character to me if he's not yet sentient, just on the way there. We've seen tons of AIs that are already sentient, I want to see an AI that's on a road to sentience.

We had that with the Doctor on Voyager...he wasn't instant on sentient, he was aware of his existence, same as Vic, and through his running time and interactions he 'grew up'. Vic arguably did that years ago...he de o started enough awareness to deal with Nog hiding in his program. This recent development is just film-flam...that or a working holoemitter is one of the hallmarks for sentience. I personally suspect the researcher is in on it.

 

[Idran]

I personally suspect the researcher is in on it.

Man, I hope not. The whole "oh, the researcher is lying for personal gain, they aren't really interested in advancing their field" story beat is tiresome.

 

[jaime]

Man, I hope not. The whole "oh, the researcher is lying for personal gain, they aren't really interested in advancing their field" story beat is tiresome.

I think she's lying for vics sake. Researchers don't lie for personal gain in Trek that much...well...not all the time. That's if she's in on it. Either way, even given the evidence she lays for not 'yet' I would say every other piece of evidence, particularly from the other sentient AÍ character stories, would suggest it's film flam...at which point in his seven years did the Doctor gain sentience? Which amount of stimuli or development did it? Has Vic also not had that?
I am not even a fan of the character, but I would suggest he has. He also knows when to play dumb lightbulb. He's a Vegas singer, not a Starfleet Doctor.

 

[Ronald Held]

Not convinced the doctor knows, and I think it is borderline whether he is or not. Might be the most interesting character on the current DS9.

 

[Jedi Ben]

This was a pretty good read.

Would agree with the comment that it comes across as an aftermath story, after the big bang of Ascendance and the light relief of Force & Motion, this book is to clear up the remaining loose ends of those plots and start new ones running. In that respect it is very effective. It also resolves some longer running plots like Ro Quark, Morn and maybe a couple of other strands from the Plagues of Night / Raise The Dawn duo.

I liked the idea of the Dominion refugees, also the idea of Sisko charting the Gamma Quadrant but it would be good to get back to that character.

 

[DS9forever]

Does Bajor have five moons, or five that are inhabited?

 

[Idran]

Does Bajor have five moons, or five that are inhabited?

5 moons total.

 

[Ronald Held]

Is it 5 moons since formation, or initially 4 plus an artificial one?

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

There are only four, but somebody wanted the Bajorans to see five.

 

[DS9forever]

Is Millennium part of the current continuity? In one of those novels, Sisko mentions there are five inhabited, hinting there are others, that aren't.

 

[Idran]

Is Millennium part of the current continuity? In one of those novels, Sisko mentions there are five inhabited, hinting there are others, that aren't.

Millennium isn't (or at least there are a number of contradictions with the current Litverse), although Watching the Clock made reference to a red orb of Jalbador incident implying that something like Millennium happened.

Still, though, the DS9 Technical Manual established Bajor as having five moons before Millennium came out; not binding, of course, but most books still tend to follow the TMs.

(Memory Alpha also states that Bajor has five moons, but I can't find a screen source for that, only that Bajor has at least five.)

 

[Christopher]

Millennium isn't (or at least there are a number of contradictions with the current Litverse), although Watching the Clock made reference to a red orb of Jalbador incident implying that something like Millennium happened.

At the time I wrote that, I thought that Millennium was in continuity. I've gathered since that there's some question about that, but I don't know the specifics. What contradictions are you referring to?

 

[Idran]

At the time I wrote that, I thought that Millennium was in continuity. I've gathered since that there's some question about that, but I don't know the specifics. What contradictions are you referring to?

The big one is that it was a major plot point of the backstory of the future section of Millennium that there was no wormhole in the MU; that was the entire reason why Operation Looking Glass was attempted. It also had present-day Vash stay in Bajor's past with future-Picard and future-Nog, which was later contradicted by "Q Are Cordially Uninvited", though obviously that wouldn't have been a concern when you were writing WTC.

Also, this conversation gave me some deja vu, and I figured out why when I was searching the forum.

Though honestly, reconsidering things, I suppose the wormhole aspect is easy enough to handwave by saying it was an alternate MU or something. The Vash part's harder to do, but again that wasn't relevant at the time you were writing yours anyway. I thought there were other continuity skews as well, but I'm blanking now on what they might have been.

So yeah, overall I'll back off on the "not in continuity" thing on second thought. At least until I give the trilogy a reread rather than just relying on memory.