DS9 should get Remastered

[jefferiestubes8]

Re: Trek TV remastered

In regards to the tests, this is from 2007:
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Star-Trek/7762

As I've already pointed out on this thread a link to TNG remastering which had that information.
My question was

Do you have a url link or magazine title and issue# or month/year to your rumor source?

about your

Originally Posted by ManaByte
grabbed an episode of TNG and remastered it in HD (without re-doing the effects) and showed it to the brass at Paramount to try to sell them on the project. The rumor is that it's already underway.

If you do not have a source to even a rumor then it is not a rumor.

 

[SoM]

But people spend vast amounts of time here writing when they could be working mastering a few seconds worth of footage due to distributed working.

How? CBS would hardly be likely to send out film rushes even in the bizarre circumstance that everyone had telecines attached to their computer. And beyond that, the grading would have to be done by professionals watching the whole process and making manual adjustments as they go.

It's not a matter of raw number-crunching. It's a matter of hardware, and of manual processes.

INTERPOLATION SOFTWARE would negate the need for film rushes.

Using this would allow high definition and sharpness.

it takes 300 hours per 1 hour of remaster for a A 3 GHZ DUE CORE home pc to remaster in HD.

Upscaling, in other words. They could do that as-is - hell, if you watch a DVD on any recent LCD or plasma screen, interpolation is necessary to display anything except a small, windowboxed, picture - but it would be of an inherently lower quality than rescanning the film. And not by a small amount.

 

[Captain Fine]

Yeah the original film needs to be rescanned for sure. It's a pain that it has to be reedited as well, but it doesn't sound like it should be too hard (based on the TNG Remaster thread) so I think the real expensive thing to do will be the special effects.

 

[noknowes]

How? CBS would hardly be likely to send out film rushes even in the bizarre circumstance that everyone had telecines attached to their computer. And beyond that, the grading would have to be done by professionals watching the whole process and making manual adjustments as they go.

It's not a matter of raw number-crunching. It's a matter of hardware, and of manual processes.

INTERPOLATION SOFTWARE would negate the need for film rushes.

Using this would allow high definition and sharpness.

it takes 300 hours per 1 hour of remaster for a A 3 GHZ DUE CORE home pc to remaster in HD.

Upscaling, in other words. They could do that as-is - hell, if you watch a DVD on any recent LCD or plasma screen, interpolation is necessary to display anything except a small, windowboxed, picture - but it would be of an inherently lower quality than rescanning the film. And not by a small amount.

UPSCALING.

would fix it.the software would INTERPOLATE AND EXTRAPOLATE from existing footage....which would be frozen as a digital image.

upscaling software WOULD REPRODUCE HD quality without master tapes at all.

 

[DiSiLLUSiON]

Do you really feel the need to shout like that? If you're afraid of being misunderstood, you could simply pay more attention to your grammar and spelling, you know.

 

[timelord1010]

I hope that if CBS does get around to remastering TNG and DS9 they do things different than what they did for TOS. How about instead of syndication they air it on the CBS network on a Saturday night so everyone will know where to find it. I had a hard time finding TOS-R on TV since they kept changing the air time. Also, they would have to speed up the airings since most people will lose patience with a season per year being remastered.

 

[Thestral]

Nice idea, but I doubt it'd get even 1/10th the ratings to justify a primetime spot on a big network.

 

[TheGodBen]

Upscaling, in other words. They could do that as-is - hell, if you watch a DVD on any recent LCD or plasma screen, interpolation is necessary to display anything except a small, windowboxed, picture - but it would be of an inherently lower quality than rescanning the film. And not by a small amount.

UPSCALING.

would fix it.the software would INTERPOLATE AND EXTRAPOLATE from existing footage....which would be frozen as a digital image.

upscaling software WOULD REPRODUCE HD quality without master tapes at all.

I'm no genius, I just pretend to be one in the Voyager forum, but you seem to be missing the point. Software cannot interpolate and extrapolate data that is not there.

Lets say for the sake of argument that Avery Brooks has a faint wrinkle on his forehead, it's too faint to show up on the video image but it does show up on the original film negatives. Since the data for those pixels is not on the video image the upscaling software does not know that it is there and it will not create it. If they don't rescan the original film they cannot get all the detail; they cannot recreate the wrinkles on an actor's face, they cannot show the writing on background computer displays, they cannot show the finer details on the spaceship models... so much would be lost out.

Upscaling the image will make it look better than the original image but it will not be able to produce the same level of detail that a full remastering of the footage would achieve.

 

[timelord1010]

Nice idea, but I doubt it'd get even 1/10th the ratings to justify a primetime spot on a big network.

That's why I mentioned Saturday night, the usual dead spot of the networks schedule and CBS and the other networks seem to repeat shows that aired earlier in the week on Saturday nights.
As for ratings, who knows? If it's hyped and promoted properly it could get decent ratings. Like Chuckles said on Voyager: "Everything old is new again!".

 

[noknowes]

Upscaling, in other words. They could do that as-is - hell, if you watch a DVD on any recent LCD or plasma screen, interpolation is necessary to display anything except a small, windowboxed, picture - but it would be of an inherently lower quality than rescanning the film. And not by a small amount.

UPSCALING.

would fix it.the software would INTERPOLATE AND EXTRAPOLATE from existing footage....which would be frozen as a digital image.

upscaling software WOULD REPRODUCE HD quality without master tapes at all.

I'm no genius, I just pretend to be one in the Voyager forum, but you seem to be missing the point. Software cannot interpolate and extrapolate data that is not there.

Lets say for the sake of argument that Avery Brooks has a faint wrinkle on his forehead, it's too faint to show up on the video image but it does show up on the original film negatives. Since the data for those pixels is not on the video image the upscaling software does not know that it is there and it will not create it. If they don't rescan the original film they cannot get all the detail; they cannot recreate the wrinkles on an actor's face, they cannot show the writing on background computer displays, they cannot show the finer details on the spaceship models... so much would be lost out.

Upscaling the image will make it look better than the original image but it will not be able to produce the same level of detail that a full remastering of the footage would achieve.

The background display details don/t exist ans is mostly gibberish to make it look good.it is mostly dos code in color.

You misunderstand.Why would I want to see wrinkles on Sisko's head?

it would add nothing to my enjoyment.

WE DON'T NEED THAT KIND OF UNSAVOURY DETAIL

NEXT YOU WILL WANT TO SEE HIS NOSE HAIRS.

or stubble on Kira's legs.

ugh.ugh.ugh.

 

[TheGodBen]

^ But that's the point of HD, you see far more detail than on SD. I don't need HD, I'm fine with letting my DVD player upscale my DVDs to display on my HDTV, but some people want to watch DS9 in HD and for those people upscaling the existing episodes will not be good enough.

 

[Captain Fine]

Remastering DS9 isn't just for us, it's for future generations that they might enjoy the awesomeness that is DS9. When everyone switches to HD and gets used to that level of quality, DS9 will look like shit next to it.

 

[jefferiestubes8]

future generations and SD vs HD

Remastering DS9 isn't just for us, it's for future generations

I agree. My post on Will Star Trek live forever? brings this up.
A TV show getting remastered via an expensive process is solely a business decision based on R.O.I..
Standard definition has been adequate since 1928. It has improved but it does still work and moving from analog capture and storage to digital capture and storage of standard definition television has improved the image from the initial capture from 35mm film & editing systems output.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Would you rag on CD players because they can't play gramophone records?

Actually yes, I would. Of course it won't be able to play a gramophone record. But what's the use of a CD player if it can't play back a musical piece that was originally recorded for replay on the gramophone? That doesn't make any damn sense. Every new technology should logially be downwardly compatible with older media forms.

Your CD player can play the same songs you listened to on grammaphone -- after its been remastered from the original recording.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I can't speak for Oso Blanco, but personally I won't lose sleep over never being able to see Deep Space Nine in high definition. I'm happy with my DVDs. As for future means of releasing the show, I'm not really convinced that the only way to get the series to Blu-ray is by updating the effects. I'm all for remastering the picture and sound quality. But don't mess with the effects.

I absolutely agree. I won't be watching TOS with new effects and I won't be watching DS9 with new effects. If that means that I'll never see it in high definition, then that's the way it is.

Um... you do know that remastered TOS on blu-ray features the original FX from the 60s, right? You knew that, right?

Yes, it would ruin it for me. When I'm watching a movie or a tv show, I want to see the original effects. Each movie/show is a product of its time, and it should be appreciated as such. I also won't be watching Casablanca in colour or any other attempt at "improving" old movies.

Funny you mention Casablanca. I just watched it on blu-ray, remastered in high-definition. This is the way it looked in theaters originally. Nothing was changed. If you haven't seen Casablanca on blu-ray, you really haven't seen it.

If you can, watch Casablanca on blu-ray. Then you'll finally get what remastering in HD is all about.

 

[noknowes]

Remastering DS9 isn't just for us, it's for future generations that they might enjoy the awesomeness that is DS9. When everyone switches to HD and gets used to that level of quality, DS9 will look like shit next to it.

UPSCALING IS FINE.SOFTWARE INTERPOLATION/EXTRAPOLATION IS FINE TOO.NO NEED FOR EXPENSIVE,HEADACHE INDUCING REMASTERING.THE REASON IS WITHOUT THE MASTER COPY TO COMPARE TOO IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

when i write in caps it does not mean i am shouting.it means i forgot to switch caps off.

i don't look at the screen when i type.i look at the keyboard.
itistoo much effort to rewrite.iwish a special button could automatically make it lower case upper case by clicking on it.

what i did was to italicizise it instead so that youwill not be too upsetand take umbrage with myposting style.
i also don't use punctuation,proper grammer as i anm in a hurry and can't bebothered but somketimes i do ,depending onmy mood and time constraints,i hope this explains me.

 

[Navaros]

Should DS9 get Remastered - yes it should, starting right now.

Personally I wouldn't buy the Remastered version until I am rich enough to afford a 60" TV...which wouldn't be until years into the future.

Additionally, I certainly wouldn't pay the $130 USD or more that Paramount would probably charge per Season for the the first 3-5+ years that DS9 is sold in HD.

So yeah, they should get their butts in gear and start Remastering DS9 right now because even after they release it, it will still be years later before it is priced reasonably enough to buy.

 

[Navaros]

CBS/Paramount will not do it due to cost.

I suggest ds9 fans using home computers do it instead.3 years ago a fan inspired project was launched in which all Jack Vance Novels were reprinted/re-mastered into Hardback using the internet as a coordination tool.This produced the Vance Integral Edition.

You can look up the Vance Integral Edition in google for inspiration.

Jack Vance is very good science fiction fantasy writer with well over 200 novels.He won the Hugo award.Some of you may be aware of this.

In the ds9 case the same methods can be used and with modern distributed computing the same principles can be used.

Some of you have already produced high quality cgi in relation to Star Trek as witnessed in youtube and google video.

These efforts can be focused into remastering DS9.

A small team of not more than 15 people can be assembled.Any more and it will not work as infighting and ego conspires to defeat the object of the exercise.

An Agenda can be agreed and then implemented episode by episode.

Perhaps CBS/Paramount can be involved in it too.

Sounds like what you are suggesting would be viewed by CBS/Paramount as a violation of the Trek IP, therefore they would shut it down with cease and desist legal letters as soon as someone started to try it.

So it being technically possible, presuming that your post is correct on the technical capabilities of such a project being doable, is a moot point. The idea would be swiftly crushed for legal reasons regardless.

 

[Harvey]

Funny you mention Casablanca. I just watched it on blu-ray, remastered in high-definition. This is the way it looked in theaters originally. Nothing was changed. If you haven't seen Casablanca on blu-ray, you really haven't seen it.

If you can, watch Casablanca on blu-ray. Then you'll finally get what remastering in HD is all about.

Well, not quite. 35mm has many times the resolution of HD, so if you can, see a print of Casablanca. But HD certainly comes far closer to replicating the visual experience than SD.

 

[Hober Mallow]

UPSCALING IS FINE.SOFTWARE INTERPOLATION/EXTRAPOLATION IS FINE TOO.NO NEED FOR EXPENSIVE,HEADACHE INDUCING REMASTERING.THE REASON IS WITHOUT THE MASTER COPY TO COMPARE TOO IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

Sure, and why bother keeping the original Mona Lisa when a printed copy on a postcard will do just fine? Who can tell the difference between the two, right?

I can't fathom this logic. At all.