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DS9 on blu ray?

With TNG, a much more popular show that was cheaper to remaster, if posted figures are to be believed, they are still millions in the red at this point.

Just looking at Blu-ray profits maybe. However, selling the HD licensing rights to HULU for only the first two seasons of TNG-R a couple years ago would have put CBS in the black. As an example, HULU just made a deal with Sony to stream Seinfeld for $700,000-$900,000 an episode. That's roughly $138 million! Figure (at least) $100,000-$200,000 an episode of TNG-R (x 48) and CBS almost certainly made their investment back, not even taking Blu-ray sales into account.

They never would have attempted the project in the first place if they hadn't pre-sold it.

Interesting point. All the figures posted however indicate the remaster of season one alone cost more than 9.6 million, our "inside" posters have rubbished the idea they did the whole show for 8-12 million.

Something there doesn't make sense though. The idea that TNG-R's first 25 episodes alone cost more than $9.6 million, but all 176 episodes of DS9-R will cost only roughly twice that? That can't possibly be right. DS9-R's estimated $20 million cost divided by 176 is roughly $115,000 per episode. Using that as an extreme upper limit for a typical TNG episode, Season One of TNG must have cost a great deal less than $3 million.

TNG, if it had paid for itself before it started, then we would be getting the other two shows on Blu!

Hmm, I'm not so sure that follows. Only truly spectacular Blu-ray sales might have led to that, but that was never in the cards. In any case, I suspect we're only going to get the other two shows if CBS can convince Amazon, Hulu, or Netflix to buy new licensing rights to some or all of their respective seasons as was done with TNG-R (its Amazon and HULU deals). CBS makes far more on these licensing deals than they ever could selling Blu-ray sets to a niche group of fans. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars per episode.

As another example, earlier this year HULU paid CBS about $120 million for 300+ episodes of CSI, which works out to mid-six figures for each episode. If Seinfeld can command nearly $1 million per episode and CSI nearly half a million, then surely TNG is somewhere around half of that, so $200,000 - $250,000. I would expect DS9 would yet again be half of that, or $100,000 - $125,000. But maybe CBS hasn't yet been able to get the streaming companies on board at that price point. That's just a guess on my part, but it sounds plausible.

One thing's for sure, if people suddenly started watching a lot of DS9 or VOY on these services, those companies would be much more likely to fork over the cash to get them in HD, because they know their subscribers prefer HD. :)
 
I was watching the commentaries on Season 1 of Enterprise and all of the seasons of TNG Blu-Rays the past week, as I'd never watched the new BRD material. Berman and Braga say over and over again that TNG should have finished, then DS9 maybe a year later, then the same for Voyager and Enterprise following the end of Voyager. The thought being the subsequent series were all too rushed and the quality really suffered in their eyes except perhaps DS9.

And it wasn't just hindsight, either. :) Rick Berman was on the record at the time as having advised the Paramount executives about this (I believe the exact quote was something like how he told them they "should be wary of going to the well one time too many" with Star Trek, in case it hurt the overall franchise). It must have been some cold comfort to have seen his predictions become reality by the time Enterprise rolled around, but it wasn't his job to stop Star Trek from being made. As a studio employee, he was under orders to put them into production by people higher up the chain. He registered his concerns at the time, but ultimately he was ignored. It was 100% Paramount's call. This is one of those areas where I definitely think Berman has been unfairly maligned over the years. :)


100% agreed. Berman (and this was reported more or less at the time, so been known for some time) was told - in response to his concerns about Voyager's timing - that the execs completely understood his concerns, but if he wasn't prepared to create/produce it, they'd find somebody else.

Feeling a genuine need to protect Roddenberry's "vision", Berman signed up for Voyager, and later Enterprise.
 
Something there doesn't make sense though. The idea that TNG-R's first 25 episodes alone cost more than $9.6 million, but all 176 episodes of DS9-R will cost only roughly twice that? That can't possibly be right. DS9-R's estimated $20 million cost divided by 176 is roughly $115,000 per episode. Using that as an extreme upper limit for a typical TNG episode, Season One of TNG must have cost a great deal less than $3 million.

That 20 million figure is news to me where did it come from?

Seems cheap given the amount of new CGI vfx required.
 
Seems cheap given the amount of new CGI vfx required.

We don't know how much new CGI vfx will be required, if any. Trekcore reported that some of the former employees who worked on DS9 kept the CGI project files...and the models were overbuilt with HD in mind. It's quite possible that very little would actually need to be recreated from scratch.
 
Seems cheap given the amount of new CGI vfx required.

We don't know how much new CGI vfx will be required, if any. Trekcore reported that some of the former employees who worked on DS9 kept the CGI project files...and the models were overbuilt with HD in mind. It's quite possible that very little would actually need to be recreated from scratch.

Yeah I know that.

But even if the scene files exist, all the models and textures still exist in their original form etc, it will still be pricey to re-render all those shots in HD. No point pretending otherwise.
 
Yeah I know that.

But even if the scene files exist, all the models and textures still exist in their original form etc, it will still be pricey to re-render all those shots in HD. No point pretending otherwise.

Still cheaper than recreating every scene from scratch though and if the former employee is correct then the models and textures may very well stand up to the HD update with perhaps only some minor tweaking...relatively speaking.

You've likely seen this already, but if this is the result of re-rendering and compositing the original elements in HD, then I think it would look great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJs0-hhOZFQ

Same scene, but someone synced it with audio from the original episode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lymh5p6UbbU
 
While re-rendering space battles and complete effects shots will take a fair bit of money, it is relatively simple to do. The real expense will be in the composite shots where live action marries with digital/modelwork. That's an order of magnitude harder and more expensive. I can't imagine how much all the Odo effects will cost.
 
Yeah I know that.

But even if the scene files exist, all the models and textures still exist in their original form etc, it will still be pricey to re-render all those shots in HD. No point pretending otherwise.

Still cheaper than recreating every scene from scratch though and if the former employee is correct then the models and textures may very well stand up to the HD update with perhaps only some minor tweaking...relatively speaking.

You've likely seen this already, but if this is the result of re-rendering and compositing the original elements in HD, then I think it would look great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJs0-hhOZFQ

Same scene, but someone synced it with audio from the original episode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lymh5p6UbbU

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to hold out some hope that DS9-HD will happen, it is just looking incredibly unlikely.
 
If they had bothered to release TNG in a complete set (in the United States) I would have bought it... I have met a few people who said the same... So it bugs me when they try to blame fans for not buying it.
 
If they had bothered to release TNG in a complete set (in the United States) I would have bought it... I have met a few people who said the same... So it bugs me when they try to blame fans for not buying it.

It should bug everyone, they have basically said "buy it on release day at full price, everyone of you now, or we won't be doing any more".

If the model was that fragile to be fair, we were lucky to get all of TNG!
 
If they had bothered to release TNG in a complete set (in the United States) I would have bought it... I have met a few people who said the same... So it bugs me when they try to blame fans for not buying it.

So you would have bought it if it had been far cheaper. I doubt you would've bought it if the complete set was set on the base MSRP of the season sets ($909.93) or even the sale prices ($419.93).

The decision to do DS9 wasn't going to be made based on TNG sets that were bought at severely reduced prices. CBS is likely making little to no profit on the complete sets.
 
If they had bothered to release TNG in a complete set (in the United States) I would have bought it... I have met a few people who said the same... So it bugs me when they try to blame fans for not buying it.

The whole series is available on Blu-ray for $265.95 with free prime shipping at Amazon.com. Is that cheap enough for you and the few people you've met?

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Generation-Complete-Episodes/dp/B00NQXC2YU


Why did they release a set for UK but not US?
 
If they had bothered to release TNG in a complete set (in the United States) I would have bought it... I have met a few people who said the same... So it bugs me when they try to blame fans for not buying it.

The whole series is available on Blu-ray for $265.95 with free prime shipping at Amazon.com. Is that cheap enough for you and the few people you've met?

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Generation-Complete-Episodes/dp/B00NQXC2YU


Why did they release a set for UK but not US?

Probably Amazon asked them to, I suspect they have basically 100% (OK, 90% with Zavvi et al) of the UK box set market these days.
 
If they had bothered to release TNG in a complete set (in the United States) I would have bought it... I have met a few people who said the same... So it bugs me when they try to blame fans for not buying it.

The whole series is available on Blu-ray for $265.95 with free prime shipping at Amazon.com. Is that cheap enough for you and the few people you've met?

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Generation-Complete-Episodes/dp/B00NQXC2YU


Why did they release a set for UK but not US?

Who cares? It's for sale in the States through Amazon.com, it's a complete set, it's playable in all regions, and it's at a reasonable price. You must have ordered one by now.
 
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