DS9 on blu ray?

[Reeborg]

It is interesting that it was the first season that sold the most. Was it just the novelty and that once everyone got their TNG in HD fix through that that they no longer felt it was worth getting the remaining seasons?

I guess it meant that people bought the first season, compared the picture quality to the DVDs ON THEIR TV SET and decided that the investment was not worth it. I find i.g. the quality improvement DVD->BLU-RAY on my 32" screen to be minor. I mostly buy blu-rays (to replace DVDs) for additional language options, unfortunately there was little improvement in that area for TNG-BD. I was therefore not ready to buy them for 90 USD/70 EUR a season. Without the amazon.it offers (20..25 EUR), I would not have bought them.

 

[BillJ]

I guess it meant that people bought the first season, compared the picture quality to the DVDs ON THEIR TV SET and decided that the investment was not worth it. I find i.g. the quality improvement DVD->BLU-RAY on my 32" screen to be minor.

As bad as my eyes are, I can tell a huge difference in both picture clarity and color on the Blu-ray's vs. the DVD's. On my 32" TV that I do the majority of my viewing on. The differences are even more evident when I use my 40" TV.

Then there was a $20 sampler that came out months before the first season that showed exactly what the work would look like. It could be that people simply were more nostalgic for the first season as opposed to what came later. I know I sure was.

I think people need to be honest with themselves. The Star Trek spinoffs just aren't that big of a draw anymore. And $129.99 MSRP for a 25-year old TV show is insane, no matter how much work has been put into it or how popular it was during its original run.

 

[Admiral Bear]

It's highly unfortunate that Burnett failed to grasp the multitude of reasons why the sales of TNG on Blu-ray have been so poor, and has just chosen to label Trek fans as backward neanderthals who "just didn't understand". He sounds like Q belittling humanity.

However, I did like his very strong dissing of Bad Robot and Into Darkness.

CBS don't seem to have any desire to actually sell the TNG sets. The prices at Amazon reflect that. £215 for the US boxset, while the UK duplicate is £150, and most of the individual seasons are at least £10 more expensive in the US. There seems to be no understanding that if you lower the price, more people will buy, especially those who have double dipping issues. As Bill has said above, the prices are nuts.

 

[BillJ]

However, I did like his very strong dissing of Bad Robot and Into Darkness.

Which has nothing to do with the sales of TNG on Blu-ray. Or maybe it does? Maybe a huge portion of Trek fans can't accept change? Maybe they are stuck in 1966? Or 1987? Or 1994?

 

[Admiral Bear]

However, I did like his very strong dissing of Bad Robot and Into Darkness.

Which has nothing to do with the sales of TNG on Blu-ray. Or maybe it does? Maybe a huge portion of Trek fans can't accept change? Maybe they are stuck in 1966? Or 1987? Or 1994?

I'm willing to bet that most of the people who watched and liked Into Darkness haven't bought any of the TNG Blu sets, and that many of those people who hated it and or were against Abrams in the first place, are in the group of Trek fans that have bought the sets.

No facts for the above. Just a gut feeling.

Into Darkness has dragged the future of Star Trek down the road of eternal craptitude. I think it's more that than anything to do with not being able to accept change.

 

[DonIago]

Funny, I both liked ID and bought TNG on Blu ray...

 

[Lance]

Agreed about the prices.

Other factors include the fact that Blu Ray sales in general are of course competing not only with the cheaper DVD option, but also with online streaming, where HD episodes are being released in a more economical format. Burnett needs to realise that it could just be that TNG came too late to the party. I'm not a fan of streaming, but I think it's delusional to pretend it wouldn't have factored in to a loss of sales for the physical product. This isn't 1999, it isn't even 2009. Times have changed.

Another thing, and this alludes to something else BillJ said earlier about Enterprise, is that IIRC all seven seasons of The Next Generation on DVD got reissued in new packaging at around the same time TNG season two was being released on blu ray... that could be another factor in sales. Anyone out there with a very mild vested interest in owning the series, but who didn't already, might've just looked at the Blu Ray prices, looked at the heavily discounted TNG DVD re-issues, and made a sensible dollars-and-cents decision about which to buy. It happens.

A third problem was divvying up the fanbase with 'special event' Blu Rays like Best of Both Worlds. I can understand them doing that with maybe one epic episode, but when they started doing it every season, it's easy to imagine there were people out there who went "Yeah... no." And decisions like that cost money. I doubt anyone at CBS reaped a financial benefit out of those special event blu rays, they were probably a total money pit.

So yeah. It's incredibly simplistic of Burnett to blame the fans on this one. The team got cocky with a few of their business decisions, and it just didn't pay off for them.

 

[BillJ]

I'm willing to bet that most of the people who watched and liked Into Darkness haven't bought any of the TNG Blu sets, and that many of those people who hated it and or were against Abrams in the first place, are in the group of Trek fans that have bought the sets.

No facts for the above. Just a gut feeling.

Into Darkness has dragged the future of Star Trek down the road of eternal craptitude. I think it's more that than anything to do with not being able to accept change.

This post is pretty much entirely non-sense.

I saw Star Trek Into Darkness three times at the theater, have bought it twice on Blu-ray and have the sampler and first five seasons of TNG on Blu-ray.

For a group that is suppose to embrace IDIC and "Roddenberry's Vision", they sure don't apply those concepts to the Abrams films which are every bit "Star Trek" as any of the TV series or other movies.

Star Trek Into Darkness made nearly a half-billion dollars in theaters, done well on home video and is seemingly well liked by the vast majority of folks who have seen it. But, somehow, it "has dragged the future of Star Trek down the road of eternal craptitude". Because a few very noisy fans don't like it.

I like Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise well enough. But if numbers are any indication they are the one's to have "dragged the future of Star Trek down the road of eternal craptitude". If I had to make a choice between the Abrams films and those series, the Abrams films would win every single time. Because they have a sense of fun and adventure that is sorely lacking from those spinoffs.

 

[BillJ]

Another thing, and this alludes to something else BillJ said earlier about Enterprise, is that IIRC all seven seasons of The Next Generation on DVD got reissued in new packaging at around the same time TNG season two was being released on blu ray... that could be another factor in sales. Anyone out there with a very mild vested interest in owning the series, but who didn't already, might've just looked at the Blu Ray prices, looked at the heavily discounted TNG DVD re-issues, and made a sensible dollars-and-cents decision about which to buy. It happens.

Yeah, I had forgotten about those re-releases that could be had for half the price of the Blu-ray's. Talk about cutting your own throat.

 

[dub]

Is it possible that having TNG HD available for streaming at the same time as the BD sales are going on has something to do with those disappointing BD sales?

 

[BillJ]

Is it possible that having TNG HD available for streaming at the same time as the BD sales are going on has something to do with those disappointing BD sales?

I only know about Amazon, but the episodes aren't available there until six months after the physical set releases.

 

[dub]

Is it possible that having TNG HD available for streaming at the same time as the BD sales are going on has something to do with those disappointing BD sales?

I only know about Amazon, but the episodes aren't available there until six months after the physical set releases.

Oh okay. Didn't know. Poor assumption on my part.

 

[drt]

I guess it meant that people bought the first season, compared the picture quality to the DVDs ON THEIR TV SET and decided that the investment was not worth it. I find i.g. the quality improvement DVD->BLU-RAY on my 32" screen to be minor.

As bad as my eyes are, I can tell a huge difference in both picture clarity and color on the Blu-ray's vs. the DVD's. On my 32" TV that I do the majority of my viewing on. The differences are even more evident when I use my 40" TV.

Then there was a $20 sampler that came out months before the first season that showed exactly what the work would look like. It could be that people simply were more nostalgic for the first season as opposed to what came later. I know I sure was.

I only own the sampler and BoBW on BluRay.

I think the way TNG was filmed doesn't really help it's case for modern audiences. I'm not sure if it was necessary for the video-based post-production, or simply the artistic choice at the time, but I found the lighting to be relatively simple and overly-bright*, combining that with the somewhat bland overall color palette, gave everything kind of a flat look overall, and didn't really inspire me to go out and pick up complete seasons. (I'll probably pick up the AGT standalone and call it a day)

* = probably why the moodier lighting in Generations makes the same sets and costumes look much richer overall.

 

[dub]

I think something closer to the lighting for Yesterday's Enterprise would have been nice.

 

[BillJ]

I only own the sampler and BoBW on BluRay.

I think the way TNG was filmed doesn't really help it's case for modern audiences. I'm not sure if it was necessary for the video-based post-production, or simply the artistic choice at the time, but I found the lighting to be relatively simple and overly-bright*, combining that with the somewhat bland overall color palette, gave everything kind of a flat look overall, and didn't really inspire me to go out and pick up complete seasons. (I'll probably pick up the AGT standalone and call it a day)

* = probably why the moodier lighting in Generations makes the same sets and costumes look much richer overall.

Video tape was used because it was cheaper to do post-production on.

As far as the lighting goes, I think the first couple seasons the lighting was much better than what we got from season three on.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

It's unfortunate sales were so poor, as I own all seven remastered Next Gen sets (not my favorite series, that would be DS9) AND have them sitting next to my Blu-Ray copies of Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness

It really sucks because now I'm used to the picture quality on Blu-Ray for Star Trek TOS and Next Gen and can't even bring myself to watch how horrible the DVDs and streaming on Netflix looks for DS9 and Voyager. I can attest that Next Gen looks INCREDIBLE on my 55" screen. DS9 and Voyager look like I don't have my contacts in.

You can't blame CBS, though. If Trek's biggest fanboys can't upgrade their Next Generation sets (one of the most popular Treks) to Blu, then who the hell is going to authorize remastering lesser-popular DS9 and Voyager, which will sell even less? The REALLY sad thing is when the people who can't see a difference on their dinky 30" tvs finally upgrade to a bigger tv, they're going to be kicking themselves because they'll be in the same boat as those of us who have big TVs we CAN see a difference on

Edit: Agreed CBS didn't seem to want to sell these set, either. I live about 40 miles from Tennessee and the only place I could find season one was at a Best Buy in Lexington, which had all of three copies. So, instead of driving 60 miles to buy every season, I had to order them all off Amazon.

 

[Lance]

You can't blame CBS, though. If Trek's biggest fanboys can't upgrade their Next Generation sets (one of the most popular Treks) to Blu, then who the hell is going to authorize remastering lesser-popular DS9 and Voyager, which will sell even less? The REALLY sad thing is when the people who can't see a difference on their dinky 30" tvs finally upgrade to a bigger tv, they're going to be kicking themselves because they'll be in the same boat as those of us who have big TVs we CAN see a difference on

Edit: Agreed CBS didn't seem to want to sell these set, either. I live about 40 miles from Tennessee and the only place I could find season one was at a Best Buy in Lexington, which had all of three copies. So, instead of driving 60 miles to buy every season, I had to order them all off Amazon.

See, that's the thing though. I *can* blame CBS. There were a couple of bad business decisions that, IMO, made it harder for the TNG blu rays to gain market share.

The supply issue is one of them. Bricks and mortar retail (we keep being told) is a dying industry, and I too found it impossible to buy them from a store -- I had to order them from Amazon. This isn't a bad business decision, but it was a bad time for them to be doing this project if the aim was to sell boxsets.

Even with a six month delay between the boxsets and the HD episodes being streamed, the difference in price point might have been enough to keep people waiting until they could stream them instead. You and I and the fish all know the Blu Rays look and sound better than streaming (bitrate, data size, etc), but to a lot of people who just want to see TNG in HD, they might be willing to hold onto their wallets a little longer and just stream them. Bad business decision.

The 'special edition' blu rays (BOBW, Redemption, Unification, etc) were another brain fart. I can understand one of these, but doing one a season and putting exclusive value added material on them, that simply split the market. Sure there are completists who will buy everything, but not everybody has got money to burn. Bad business decision.

The afforementioned decision to re-release all seven seasons in discounted form on DVD early in the run. As BillJ said above, talk about cutting your own throat. There's no way that didn't bite a chunk out of the sales, as there's still a sizable market of people who either can't afford blu ray, or simply haven't upgraded. Either way, it was like one branch of CBS was giving the middle finger to another branch of CBS. Bad business decision.

I think the restorations *will* make their money back eventually, and go into profit, as now that they're done they will reap benefits from HD broadcast sales and streaming. But the fact is, there were a shit-load of bad decisions/unfortunate circumstances which led to these physical TNG-R boxsets not being as profitable as CBS anticipated. That isn't the fault of the fans, no matter what Burnett thinks.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I only own the sampler and BoBW on BluRay.

I think the way TNG was filmed doesn't really help it's case for modern audiences. I'm not sure if it was necessary for the video-based post-production, or simply the artistic choice at the time, but I found the lighting to be relatively simple and overly-bright*, combining that with the somewhat bland overall color palette, gave everything kind of a flat look overall, and didn't really inspire me to go out and pick up complete seasons. (I'll probably pick up the AGT standalone and call it a day)

* = probably why the moodier lighting in Generations makes the same sets and costumes look much richer overall.

Video tape was used because it was cheaper to do post-production on.

As far as the lighting goes, I think the first couple seasons the lighting was much better than what we got from season three on.

Agreed. The decision to go with the more even lighting in from season three and on was something Berman wanted, so he let go of the first DP Edward Brown and Marvin Rush was hired to light the Enterprise sets more like a casino. Berman didn't like the more dramatic lighting in the first two seasons made use of shadows. We never saw anything like this shot after the original DP left:

 

[Lance]

Yeah, the lighting in the first two seasons was fantastic. I've seen it refered to as noir-ish, and I can totally see that. It's a real shame they fired the first guy and made the decision to flood-light so much of the ship instead.

 

[Reeborg]

Is it possible that having TNG HD available for streaming at the same time as the BD sales are going on has something to do with those disappointing BD sales?

I only know about Amazon, but the episodes aren't available there until six months after the physical set releases.

Oh okay. Didn't know. Poor assumption on my part.

I would not discard your explanation as easily. When the first season came out, there was no TNG-HD streaming available at all. So people bought the first season on BD since there was no streaming available. With season 1 "filling the void" for some time, season 2 was not necessarily needed to be purchased at release date but fans could easily span season 1 until season 2 was avaiable on streaming and so on. (original) TNG fans aren't that young anymore, have family and other obligations, so somehow limited time to spend with ST. Myself, I own TNG-BD S1-5 but I haven't watched more that a very small part of it because of my "busy situation".