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DS9 on blu ray?

I'm never sure if PAL or NTSC is better.

Sometimes I've been convinced that when it comes to TV shows made in America, sometimes NTSC is better, because it's how it was meant to be seen. PAL ends up worse because they've had to speed it up a little.

The same obviously being true, the opposite way around, for UK shows being broadcast in America (PAL being the obvious winner, NTSC being of reduced quality).

Does Star Trek look and sound better in NTSC than PAL? :confused:
 
A serious question, please. Does anyone know how far away we are from having equipment that will do some of the clean up and rendering and quality improving kinds of things we are talking about in this Thread at home? Is it a matter of cost, or a matter of machines and know-how?
 
Lance said:
"Always watch in the intended format" is my motto. ;)
Click to expand...

Well if DS9 is anything like Voyager, it's a mix of 23.976p live-action footage, with effects and post-production completed at 59.94i, so there is no way to watch it in its "intended format". A proper remaster could get everything at 23.976p like the TNG remaster and not look jumpy.
 
MacLeod said:
M said:
To be honest, at this point I'd be happy even if they went this route. Sure, having the effects in high-definition would be truely glorious, but most of the live action material is so dark, murky and blurred, that it would be a treat just to have that rescanned. Especially when it comes to the first two seasons.
Click to expand...


In what way is the live action dark. murky and blurred? The episodes I caught on SyFy (UK) last year looked fine as did my DVDs last time I watched an episode. But pheraps it's a PAL vs NTSC thing.
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The same way TNG episodes on TV/DVD look dark, murky and blurred when compared with the Bluray. Looks like a greasy veil was lift up.

Of course, without a term of comparison, everything can look "fine".

Just a glance at the station in HD in Birthright shows how fuzy the DVDs are.


Star Trek shows, with the exception of TOS, look better on NTSC because they were edited in that format, I believe.

So PAL versions are conversions fro NTSC with all the issues that implies.

I also remember DVD reviews giving better grades, when it came to picture quality, to Region 1 versions.

On the other hand, movies tend to look better in PAL, since it has a higher resolution, and the native format was HD, so to speak. The same applies to TOS.
 
Yeah, like a lot of American TV shows in the 80s and 90s, the Star Trek shows were often shot on film and then 'post-produced' on video. This saved a lot of time and money, but gave everything a kind of faded, fuzzy effect.

What TNG-R did was go back to the source (the extant film), rescan at a higher resolution, and then, in essence, apply a fresh post-production using modern equipment.

Doing this to DS9 and VOY isn't technically impossible, but it's simply a matter of how much the financial gain would be worth the considerable initial outlay.

As far as missing assets etc are concerned, the worst case scenario would be that certain effects shots would need to be upscaled (which was true of TNG anyway, not everything could be recovered). Chances are pretty good that the majority of material could be upgraded to HD, even if a proportionate minority ended up being an SD upscale.
 
Lance said:
I'm never sure if PAL or NTSC is better.

Sometimes I've been convinced that when it comes to TV shows made in America, sometimes NTSC is better, because it's how it was meant to be seen. PAL ends up worse because they've had to speed it up a little.

The same obviously being true, the opposite way around, for UK shows being broadcast in America (PAL being the obvious winner, NTSC being of reduced quality).

Does Star Trek look and sound better in NTSC than PAL? :confused:
Click to expand...

Well it's 4% speed up. but I suppose on the plus side it has a higher picture quality 480i (NTSC) vs 576i (PAL). Besides really it's not until now with HD we are seeing things how they were meant to be seen. Film is generally run at 24fps whilst NTSC generally ran at 30fps (29.97 to be exact) so they had to use a process of 3:2 pulldown when trnasferring from film to video.
 
BillJ said:
I'm sure CBS has a department that is solely there to wring money out of properties that are no longer in first-run. Whether it be Star Trek or MASH or I Love Lucy or Gilligan's Island or The Brady Bunch or other properties they own.
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"Excusem moi, Monsieur Distributeur du Français. Parlez vous D-S-Neuf?"

"Non. It's been almost 20 years. Our target audience wasn't born yet when it was last aired. French laugh. Le poisson. It's crazy you would even ask such a question ridiculous!"

MacLeod said:
But does a circle have a beginning?
Click to expand...

Can't tell. It's too fuzzy in standard def. I'm holding out unreasonable hopes that the circle will be remastered in HD in time for Christmas.
 
Praetorian said:
Star Trek shows, with the exception of TOS, look better on NTSC because they were edited in that format, I believe.

So PAL versions are conversions fro NTSC with all the issues that implies.
Click to expand...

Not sure this is true: I recall TNG looked a lot better on our SD TVs than stuff like sitcoms or chatshows, which tended to live down to NTSC's reputation (Never The Same Color). We'd need an insider's view but I suspect that, in view of international sales, native PAL versions were prepared from the film. (I think the same was true for stuff like Magnum PI and Murder She Wrote.)

Also, even good NTSC -> PAL conversions can suffer from ghosting, and I never noticed that with any broadcast here.

(Ghosting is occasional overlay of double images, most noticable during action scenes but definitely preferable to frame-skipping.)
 
Robert Meyer Burnett (Director of some VAM on the TNG blurays) January 3

@BurnettRM: "The Blu Ray sales were EXTREMELY disappointing. Unfortunately, the fan base didn't really understand the upgrade."

"There are always possibilities for DS9, but you're looking at a 20 mil investment to do it like TNG. Ouch."

Also...

"The Fathom events were stopped after BoBW director Cliff Bole complained to the WGA and DGA, looking for residuals"

"Yup. Those events were terrific. Cliff Bole ruined it for everybody. But then he passed away."
 
Squiggy said:
Robert Meyer Burnett (Director of some VAM on the TNG blurays) January 3

@BurnettRM: "The Blu Ray sales were EXTREMELY disappointing. Unfortunately, the fan base didn't really understand the upgrade."

"There are always possibilities for DS9, but you're looking at a 20 mil investment to do it like TNG. Ouch."

Also...

"The Fathom events were stopped after BoBW director Cliff Bole complained to the WGA and DGA, looking for residuals"

"Yup. Those events were terrific. Cliff Bole ruined it for everybody. But then he passed away."
Click to expand...

So he's blaming everyone else for the projects failure. :lol:
 
I still think it was a mistake for them to dump Enterprise into the market at the same time as TNG.
 
So just so that I am understanding the remastered TNG doesn't come with

Better picture quality
Better Sound quality
Improved effects
Minor fixes where errors where made (i.e Darmk)

I must have dreamt that it did ;
 
I assume he is referring to those who were holding out for the complete box set and still expecting more remastered Trek after. The whole team behind the blu-rays have tried emphasize "buying the blu-rays will send a message to CBS that you want DS9 remastered". Of course, there's no way to determine how many are holding out until the complete box is put on the shelves.

It is interesting that it was the first season that sold the most. Was it just the novelty and that once everyone got their TNG in HD fix through that that they no longer felt it was worth getting the remaining seasons?
 
Out here in region B, the complete set is already available I believe it was released on/or just after when S7 came out.
 
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