DS9 on blu ray?

[HIjol]

Congratulations to us on 100 pages of talking in circles.

I know it's great isn't it. I'm going to start copying and pasting my posts from up-thread soon.

It shouldn't count as 100 pages if there's only been 15 original responses.

I know there've probably only been 15 original responses, but I still hope there will be more in the future.

A Circle has no end.

 

[MacLeod]

But does a circle have a beginning?

 

[Lance]

I suppose if they really wanted to do HD versions, but wanted to save a few bucks on it, then they could go the same route as nuBSG, Firefly and Angel, and upgrade all the shots to HD *except* for any that include pricey-to-upgrade special effects shots. It'd look like crap, phasing back and forth between HD and SD for things like Odo's morphs, but they could do it for the purposes of ensuring sales for HD broadcast, without having to splash the cash...

 

[HIjol]

But does a circle have a beginning?

Now THAT is one hell of a question!

Hope your holidays were good ones, MacLeod!

Nice to "see" you!

 

[kkt]

I suppose if they really wanted to do HD versions, but wanted to save a few bucks on it, then they could go the same route as nuBSG, Firefly and Angel, and upgrade all the shots to HD *except* for any that include pricey-to-upgrade special effects shots. It'd look like crap, phasing back and forth between HD and SD for things like Odo's morphs, but they could do it for the purposes of ensuring sales for HD broadcast, without having to splash the cash...

But those would be the exact shots that would benefit most from the HD treatment!

If they only wanted to invest a little, they could try a Best Of DS9 set, with the dozen or so most popular episodes.

 

[drt]

If they only wanted to invest a little, they could try a Best Of DS9 set, with the dozen or so most popular episodes.

I think that tactic probably works better for VOY since it was a more episodic show.

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the pilot episodes of DS9 and VOY were done (it seems like it would have been at least somewhat cost-effective to have had the TNG remaster crew to have tacked it on as part of the season seven effort).

 

[Tosk]

It'd look like crap

Boy, would it. It'd be horribly jarring and just plain horrible.

If they ever do it on the cheap, I'd prefer they just upscale the whole shebang and make it as nice as the SD footage possibly can. It'd only be "somewhat" better than the DVDs, but it'd be a more consistent viewing experience.

 

[Lance]

It'd look like crap

Boy, would it. It'd be horribly jarring and just plain horrible.

I've seen a few of the 'Angel' HD remasters that are being sold on online streaming sites etc, and it's incredibly jarring -- the main portions of the episodes look pretty good, having been rescanned from the negatives, the first couple seasons are even presented in all their full widescreen glory too (unlike the DVDs)... but every time there's a vampire face morph or other visual effect, suddenly the picture quality goes through the floor, because nobody at Fox will spend the dollars necessary to redo those things from scratch. And tbh I can't blame them.

It's the "cheap" method of getting these things into HD. But it's not exactly the best (I guess for the purposes of online streaming that's not as important as for an optical disc Blu Ray, though).

We were truly blessed that the TNG team stepped up to the plate and were willing to remount so many effects, basically put TNG through a second post-production from scratch. They could have taken the easy path... but they didn't. I'm not anticipating DS9 or VOY being nearly as easy a sell to the studio book-keepers, however.

 

[DragonQ]

I've seen a few of the 'Angel' HD remasters that are being sold on online streaming sites etc, and it's incredibly jarring -- the main portions of the episodes look pretty good, having been rescanned from the negatives, the first couple seasons are even presented in all their full widescreen glory too (unlike the DVDs)... but every time there's a vampire face morph or other visual effect, suddenly the picture quality goes through the floor, because nobody at Fox will spend the dollars necessary to redo those things from scratch. And tbh I can't blame them.

Bit weird since most of the CGI for Buffy is being rerendered in HD (some even remade from scratch). It's obvious that at least some of the original digital components still exist and if they exist for Buffy they surely exist for Angel too. There's even at least one shot where they didn't fix the fact that the original effect doesn't fully extend beyond the 4:3 frame when they rerendered it.

But yes, I don't really want to see a remaster with live-action HD and upscaled SD effects. If they're going to go the cheap route for streaming, they may as well just upscale and slightly clean up the existing SD masters. It might look slightly better with less compression artefacts and slightly truer colours, which is better than nothing. Either do it properly or not at all, IMO.

 

[Lance]

I've seen a few of the 'Angel' HD remasters that are being sold on online streaming sites etc, and it's incredibly jarring -- the main portions of the episodes look pretty good, having been rescanned from the negatives, the first couple seasons are even presented in all their full widescreen glory too (unlike the DVDs)... but every time there's a vampire face morph or other visual effect, suddenly the picture quality goes through the floor, because nobody at Fox will spend the dollars necessary to redo those things from scratch. And tbh I can't blame them.

Bit weird since most of the CGI for Buffy is being rerendered in HD (some even remade from scratch). It's obvious that at least some of the original digital components still exist and if they exist for Buffy they surely exist for Angel too. There's even at least one shot where they didn't fix the fact that the original effect doesn't fully extend beyond the 4:3 frame when they rerendered it.

Hmm, curious. Maybe there are some shots where the assets still exist and can be re-rendered in HD, but other shots where an SD upscale has had to make do because the original assets are lost?

I can only report that most of the 'transformation' and 'dusting' effects I saw looked a little odd to me...

But yes, I don't really want to see a remaster with live-action HD and upscaled SD effects. If they're going to go the cheap route for streaming, they may as well just upscale and slightly clean up the existing SD masters. It might look slightly better with less compression artefacts and slightly truer colours, which is better than nothing. Either do it properly or not at all, IMO.

Agreed on the whole, but I have been impressed with for example the upscales of the modern Doctor Who (Series 1-4 got released on Blu Ray as SD upscales, and the lack of DVD video artifacts, clearer sound, and a richer color all contributed to an overall better product IMHO, despite the lack of 'True' HD.)

So, even SD upscales can be okay.

 

[Praetorian]

I don't think I agree.

I'll take the HD live action/SD CGI version, if it becomes the only way to release it.

However, things like phaser shots and Odo's morphs must be redone. I essence, most mixed live action/CGI shots.

These are simple and relatively inexpensive things to do, I believe.

They did it all the time in TNG.

The big fleet battles? The CGI looks quite good even on DVD so upscaling it wouldn't be much of a problem, I believe.

Bigger problem would be things like complex effects sequences being shown through the viewscreen, but such shots are a very small percentage of the show, I would be okay with them being upscalled as well.

I'll take a 90% HD release if that's the price.

Hell, they did that with the first two seasons of Enterprise in Bluray and it looked quite alright.

 

[Michael]

To be honest, at this point I'd be happy even if they went this route. Sure, having the effects in high-definition would be truely glorious, but most of the live action material is so dark, murky and blurred, that it would be a treat just to have that rescanned. Especially when it comes to the first two seasons.

 

[DragonQ]

I don't think I agree.

I'll take the HD live action/SD CGI version, if it becomes the only way to release it.

However, things like phaser shots and Odo's morphs must be redone. I essence, most mixed live action/CGI shots.

These are simple and relatively inexpensive things to do, I believe.

They did it all the time in TNG.

The big fleet battles? The CGI looks quite good even on DVD so upscaling it wouldn't be much of a problem, I believe.

Bigger problem would be things like complex effects sequences being shown through the viewscreen, but such shots are a very small percentage of the show, I would be okay with them being upscalled as well.

I'll take a 90% HD release if that's the price.

Hell, they did that with the first two seasons of Enterprise in Bluray and it looked quite alright.

My comment was based on the notion that all of the CGI would be upscaled. Things like phaser blasts, transporter effects, and Odo morphs are exactly why I wouldn't like a hybrid remaster - they are frequent and would look very out of place.

If those things are redone in HD I can't see it being that much of a stretch to just do the rest of the effects in HD too, even if it's just a rerender.

 

[eyeresist]

If they only wanted to invest a little, they could try a Best Of DS9 set, with the dozen or so most popular episodes.

I think that tactic probably works better for VOY since it was a more episodic show.

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the pilot episodes of DS9 and VOY were done (it seems like it would have been at least somewhat cost-effective to have had the TNG remaster crew to have tacked it on as part of the season seven effort).

Maybe a "Dominion War" box containing the most essential arc episodes? Having "war" on the cover would help sell a few boxes

 

[Praetorian]

I don't think I agree.

I'll take the HD live action/SD CGI version, if it becomes the only way to release it.

However, things like phaser shots and Odo's morphs must be redone. I essence, most mixed live action/CGI shots.

These are simple and relatively inexpensive things to do, I believe.

They did it all the time in TNG.

The big fleet battles? The CGI looks quite good even on DVD so upscaling it wouldn't be much of a problem, I believe.

Bigger problem would be things like complex effects sequences being shown through the viewscreen, but such shots are a very small percentage of the show, I would be okay with them being upscalled as well.

I'll take a 90% HD release if that's the price.

Hell, they did that with the first two seasons of Enterprise in Bluray and it looked quite alright.

My comment was based on the notion that all of the CGI would be upscaled. Things like phaser blasts, transporter effects, and Odo morphs are exactly why I wouldn't like a hybrid remaster - they are frequent and would look very out of place.

If those things are redone in HD I can't see it being that much of a stretch to just do the rest of the effects in HD too, even if it's just a rerender.

Phasers shots, transporter effects and Odo morphs are, most certanly, considerably less expensive to redo than fleet battles.

Specially since they would mostly reuse what they already created for TNG.

Even the Cardassian transporter effect was recreated for TNG.

Regarding Odo's morphs, there's that changeling like monster from Aquiel, they could probably use the same software.

So I do believe there's quite the difference between those kind of effects and the more complex space shots.

At least difference enough to make one thing cheap and the other not so cheap.

Or would rerendering be something relatively simple? I honestly have no clue about that.

They would have to find the files though, some might have been lost.

Frankly, in the end, I think I agree with the following sentiment:

To be honest, at this point I'd be happy even if they went this route. Sure, having the effects in high-definition would be truely glorious, but most of the live action material is so dark, murky and blurred, that it would be a treat just to have that rescanned. Especially when it comes to the first two seasons.

The improvement from having only the live action sequences in HD would be huge, and even the upscaled shots would look better than the DVD.

So bring it on, if it must be that way.

 

[DragonQ]

Or would rerendering be something relatively simple? I honestly have no clue about that.

Rerendering would be very simple if the original files are available. It would take time but I'm sure they have their own high-end equipment for that.

If any files are missing it'd be a lot more complicated. Most 3D models should already exist, either from the remaining DS9 files or from any created for TNG, but actually animating them would take a great deal of time and effort compared to if the original files still existed.

I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the pilot episodes of DS9 and VOY were done (it seems like it would have been at least somewhat cost-effective to have had the TNG remaster crew to have tacked it on as part of the season seven effort).

I would be extremely surprised if they had not done at least a trial episode of DS9 or Voyager before finishing the TNG remasters. For cost and time purposes it's a no-brainer to get an already set up team to do this than possibly having to get everything set up again in the future just for a trial.

 

[USS KG5]

It's sad to see the people on this thread pile on as to how unwatchable, unpopular and unwanted this show was past, present and future. Perhaps the MODS should close this thread..........but that is precisely what the naysayers here really wish to accomplish anyway.

If that's all you've gotten out of the discussion, I feel sad for you.

I'd love to see Deep Space Nine and Voyager get the same HD treatment as TNG got. I think they'd both be gorgeous. But am I suppose to lie about how likely I think such a project is?

Exactly what I was going to write.

 

[Salinga]

When it comes to demand for TV, here in Germany it would be actually VOY to get the HD treatment first instead of DS9, because besides TNG and TOS, VOY is always on rerun on a channel. DS9 on the other hand not.

 

[Lance]

Maybe a "Dominion War" box containing the most essential arc episodes? Having 'war' on the cover would help sell a few boxes

Although it would never be a substitute for a complete series remaster, I do find this idea a fascinating proposition...

 

[MacLeod]

To be honest, at this point I'd be happy even if they went this route. Sure, having the effects in high-definition would be truely glorious, but most of the live action material is so dark, murky and blurred, that it would be a treat just to have that rescanned. Especially when it comes to the first two seasons.

In what way is the live action dark. murky and blurred? The episodes I caught on SyFy (UK) last year looked fine as did my DVDs last time I watched an episode. But pheraps it's a PAL vs NTSC thing.