DS9 on blu ray?

[Hober Mallow]

Sure future proofing it now is expansive, but why not invest in the long term and not just hope that it will make a quick return investment.

Isn't that exactly what they've been doing -- investing in the long term? Had they only been interested in a quick return investment, they never would have remastered Star Trek and TNG in the first place. But it's not a matter of either/or. They have to weigh many factors.

It is doubtful there will be DS9 on Blu Ray. The sales of TNG just do not warrant it.

At $60-$70 per season for a show that's on TV most days of the week, who the hell can be surprised the TNG sets haven't been selling well?

I've yet to see a source for the claim that the TNG sets haven't been selling well.

It doesn't matter how much extra work they put into it. The average consumer is not willing to pay that much for a single season of television. The Blu-ray market has moved to a point where the expected range for a new release television season is in the $30-$50 range. This is the same ridiculous arrogance that had them pricing the original DVD releases at $100 per season.

YMMV. As someone who remembers the days when a single episode on VHS cost $15 - $20, $60 a season seems like a damn steal. Hell, Paramount had the balls to charge $100 for TFF on VHS.

Well, right now with DS9, from what I can tell, not even airing in either the US or Canada, there is a very low level of interest in the series. So it would be more likely for CBS to redo Voyager as they are currently receiving payment for the SD versions, which they could use to their advantage when renegotiating broadcast rights with the different stations already airing the Voyager episodes.

Is VOY even airing in the U.S.?

 

[tomswift2002]

Is VOY even airing in the U.S.?

Apparently all the Treks are only available via iTunes, Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, CBS.com and startrek.com in the US (although HBO Family is apparently airing Insurrection this weekend in the US). Of course, I wasn't able to pull up any good airing guides (startrek.com used to have one that listed all the countries and what channels each series was on, but it's not there anymore).

But besides Canada Voyager is apparently still airing in Australia (along with DS9, TOS, TNG & ENT), the UK and possible Germany.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Is VOY even airing in the U.S.?

Apparently all the Treks are only available via iTunes, Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, CBS.com and startrek.com in the US (although HBO Family is apparently airing Insurrection this weekend in the US).

TNG airs on BBC America, and the Trek movies show up regularly on SyFy's schedule. ENT was on HDNet, but that may have been some time ago. I don't think either VOY or DS9 has aired in at least a few years.

I haven't had cable TV for about three years, so I don't keep up on it.

 

[RunawayStarShip]

I've yet to see a source for the claim that the TNG sets haven't been selling well.

I think that "selling well" is relative to expectation, to be honest. They've been selling well enough that CBS has decided to go all the way to Season 7. Maxwell Everett has shown that the seasons following Season One sold significantly less in their respective opening weeks. That certainly makes it look like only Season One "sold well".

At the same time, we don't know how each season has sold in total. Perhaps the audio issues on some Season One discs made buyers less eager to be the guinea pigs in following seasons, and they've sold about the same if added together. Who knows.

EDIT: Interestingly, though, it seems like the decision to release standalone episodes has helped total sales.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I've yet to see a source for the claim that the TNG sets haven't been selling well.

I think that "selling well" is relative to expectation, to be honest. They've been selling well enough that CBS has decided to go all the way to Season 7. Maxwell Everett has shown that the seasons following Season One sold significantly less in their respective opening weeks. That certainly makes it look like only Season One "sold well".

Yeah, I'm aware the later seasons have sold fewer copies than the first season did, but I think it's a jump to declare only season one sold well when we don't know what CBS's expectations were/are.

 

[Dream]

Interestingly, though, it seems like the decision to release standalone episodes has helped total sales.

I imagine some of the casual TNG fans are more interested in the standalone episodes because of the cheaper price, but when the they see the episodes and remastering quality they are more likely to buy the season sets. It's the try before you buy concept.

 

[tomswift2002]

With the TNG sets I've been finding that in my area none of the brick-n-mortar stores (I.e. Walmart) have been carrying the Season sets since Season 3 came out (they didn't even carry any of the Enterprise Blu-Rays), although they have carried the re-edited movies, so at least around here not a lot people know that the other Season's have come out, unless someone told them or they were specifically looking for the set on the web. So it maybe that with brick-n-mortar stores not carrying the later seasons have had an impact on sales.

 

[Admiral Bear]

Maxwell Everett has shown that the seasons following Season One sold significantly less in their respective opening weeks. That certainly makes it look like only Season One "sold well".

I would say that season one benefited the most from the upgrade to Blu-ray, given how awful the season looks on DVD on an HD TV, plus it was the much trumpeted first season of TNG in HD. It was always going to sell reasonably well.

There was of course the soundtrack balls up resulting in new sets being sent out by Amazon. While CBS handled it well, it was still a PR disaster for the rest of the forthcoming seasons, and likely put people off buying them especially at the $60 the price point. Season 2 which was and still is riddled with issues, was probably the final nail in the coffin for all but die hard Trekkers.

With the softer images on the later seasons due to the filming techniques used at the time, people are not getting the picture quality of the earlier seasons. I know it's not anyone's fault, and that CBS have done the best they can, but at $60+ per season, I don't expect episodes that look like good quality DVD, especially when I've already got the DVDs from 13 years ago. Having watched the season 7 trailer yesterday, the footage looks very very soft.

And as tomswift has said, you can't buy them on the high street. That kills impulse purchases, and does nothing to raise awareness that they exist. Again, the price probably has a lot to do with the lack of store availability.

 

[BillJ]

I've yet to see a source for the claim that the TNG sets haven't been selling well.

I think that "selling well" is relative to expectation, to be honest. They've been selling well enough that CBS has decided to go all the way to Season 7. Maxwell Everett has shown that the seasons following Season One sold significantly less in their respective opening weeks. That certainly makes it look like only Season One "sold well".

Yeah, I'm aware the later seasons have sold fewer copies than the first season did, but I think it's a jump to declare only season one sold well when we don't know what CBS's expectations were/are.

I think the fact that CBS isn't jumping to remaster DS9 tells us all we need to know about whether TNG Blu-ray's met expectations or not.

 

[tomswift2002]

There was of course the soundtrack balls up resulting in new sets being sent out by Amazon. While CBS handled it well, it was still a PR disaster for the rest of the forthcoming seasons, and likely put people off buying them especially at the $60 the price point. Season 2 which was and still is riddled with issues, was probably the final nail in the coffin for all but die hard Trekkers.

With the softer images on the later seasons due to the filming techniques used at the time, people are not getting the picture quality of the earlier seasons. I know it's not anyone's fault, and that CBS have done the best they can, but at $60+ per season, I don't expect episodes that look like good quality DVD, especially when I've already got the DVDs from 13 years ago. Having watched the season 7 trailer yesterday, the footage looks very very soft.

And as tomswift has said, you can't buy them on the high street. That kills impulse purchases, and does nothing to raise awareness that they exist. Again, the price probably has a lot to do with the lack of store availability.

However there is a flaw to your argument. I just checked on iTunes here in Canada, and I see that CBS has the HD versions of TNG up for $59.99 CAD. (The SD versions are running around $45.99 CAD.). So how do we know that, while Blu-Ray sales are slowing, CBS isn't doing well from a combo of Blu-Ray and download? Or even what just the download sales are? The HD version of a single episode (I.e. "The Last Outpost") is $3.49, while the SD version is $2.49. Those are the same price points as a a single episode of "The Twilight Zone" or "Fringe" in HD or SD, although the complete season downloads are in the $34.99 to $39.99 range.

But personally, I wouldn't pay $60 dollars for a download of the seasons as, from other shows I've downloaded in HD, I don't find the quality is as good as a Blu-Ray video. Plus there's just something about having that tactile feel of putting a disc into your player, and actually "owning" something physical.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

With the softer images on the later seasons due to the filming techniques used at the time, people are not getting the picture quality of the earlier seasons. I know it's not anyone's fault, and that CBS have done the best they can, but at $60+ per season, I don't expect episodes that look like good quality DVD, especially when I've already got the DVDs from 13 years ago. Having watched the season 7 trailer yesterday, the footage looks very very soft.

But even the later seasons, with their different cinematographic style, don't look anything like "good quality DVD." Far from it. They look much, much better than the best that DVD is capable of. And you shouldn't judge picture quality from a YouTube video. YouTube compression softens the video and wipes away detail. Wait for TrekCore to make full quality screencaps available and higher bitrate 1080p downloads for the two new trailers before you pass judgement.

Season Seven should look very much like Season Six due to Jonathan West being the DP for both. Take a look at the full quality video and SD/HD comparison screencaps here. Don't watch the YouTube video embedded in the page, download the 301 MB 1080p video via the link below it. I defy you to find any DVD video that matches its quality.

 

[benjaminh]

What M.E. says is completely true. There's a *dramatic* difference in PQ and AQ when comparing the DVDs of Next Gen and the blu-rays. Really dramatic.

The sad thing is that it would be just as dramatic if only we could have DS9 rebuilt for blu. If only....

 

[benjaminh]

Here's an excellent fan-made trailer for DS9. It's less than 3-minutes long, but is an excellent glimpse of the show:

http://vimeo.com/59273204

It was created by "Edward Fanning." If they ever do rebuild DS9 for HD, I think they should see if they can pay him to borrow some of this for a new trailer to introduce DS9 to a new generation. That's what I was hoping was going to happening just about now, as TNG wrapped up....

Sigh.

Anyway, I think that trailer is really impressive.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I think the fact that CBS isn't jumping to remaster DS9 tells us all we need to know about whether TNG Blu-ray's met expectations or not.

It tells us absolutely nothing.

 

[benjaminh]

Here's to you Sisko and Crew and Janeway and Crew. To me you'll always be as good as TOS and TNG, even though they are treating you like second-class citizens.

I almost wonder if there's something to it: "Sure, now that we've gotten to the African-American Captain, and the woman who's a Captain, just keep those people in standard def. That's good enough for them."

White Male Captains in deluxe HD! Blurry SD is good enough for all those other kinds of captains. Keep them separate and unequal.

Someone may well write an article about this for Slate, Salon, or even the New York Times. Heck, I had an op ed published in the New York Times once. Maybe I can try to do it. I'm a college professor who is right now teaching a course on Star Trek, and so perhaps....

 

[DonIago]

I don't really subscribe to that interpretation of the situation. But it could be an interesting way to spin it.

 

[Beta-Z]

Well screw them!!
Going all apeshit here when i hear them on and on stating that it depends on how the TNG BDs sell bla bla.

So it's all on us?

How about these countless VHS tapes they sold for a zillion more profit than they put effort in?
Or all those DVD sets of DS9 that were sold over the last decade worldwide, without them doing ANY remastering?!

Don't let me start doing the math, but whatever transferring DS9 to HD may cost - they've got that money from us already several times!

To my taste they OWE us DS9 HD already BIG times!

 

[Squiggy]

How about these countless VHS tapes they sold for a zillion more profit than they put effort in?!

Might as well throw in laserdisc sales. It'd be as relevant.

VHS sales 20 years ago is not a good metric for people buying blurays today.

Someone may well write an article about this for Slate, Salon, or even the New York Times. Heck, I had an op ed published in the New York Times once. Maybe I can try to do it. I'm a college professor who is right now teaching a course on Star Trek, and so perhaps....

You're seriously misjudging how much the public (and therefore media) care about DS9...which is the problem.

Good luck with that though. Let us all know how that turns out.

 

[Tosk]

How about these countless VHS tapes they sold for a zillion more profit than they put effort in?
Or all those DVD sets of DS9 that were sold over the last decade worldwide, without them doing ANY remastering?!

All that money went to Paramount. CBS are the guys in charge now.

 

[Admiral Bear]

I think the fact that CBS isn't jumping to remaster DS9 tells us all we need to know about whether TNG Blu-ray's met expectations or not.

It tells us absolutely nothing.

In theory, maybe not. In practice, of course it does.

Just because you may not believe something's true until you've seen cast iron proof, that doesn't make it false.