DS9 looked "cheaper" than Voyager

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Trekboy1993, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Farscape One

    Farscape One Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Let's also remember DS9 had a MASSIVE amount of background actors in alien wardrobe and makeup. And that's just people on the station. I guarantee you DS9 had a larger makeup crew than VGR did, especially since most of that crew, main and background, were human.

    That is a huge chunk of dollars, too.
     
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    The thing that makes the makeup budget soar is creating new (usually alien) looks for main and guest actors. Each look has to be designed uniquely and painstakingly applied because of the amount of time that actors spend before the camera. Extras can be set up hastily, and various masks (like the Jem'hadar) and prosthetics (like the Cardassians) can be reused.

    Voyager introduced 12 new alien designs in season 5.
    In season 7, DS9 introduced none.
     
  3. Prax

    Prax Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Middle West
    We really have no way to confirm or evaluate the sparse, simplistic budget figures on IMDB. The figures for the Pilot episodes can be cross checked. I believe there are sources on WP for some of TNG's figures, though I haven't followed them.

    So we can't know for sure if season 5 averaged $2m per episode without IMDB's sources.
     
  4. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    A fan source isn't going to be reliable. I think that there are things that call those numbers into doubt, or at least suggest that we can't use them to compare different series to one another. For instance,we know that Trials and Tribble-ations came in around $3.5 million, which according to Behr, made it one of the most expensive single hours of television produced. Those costs would include director prep, upresing footage, creating new models of TOS ships, paying royalties, paying actors, extra days filming, etc. By the numbers on IMDB, the episode would have been among DS9's cheapest. The chances are that Behr's numbers don't include salaries or promotion.

    I suspect that the Voyager numbers also lack salaries and promotion.
     
  5. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    The Jem'Hadar makeup changed throughout the series - season 7 J'H look different to season 4 for example.
     
  6. Prax

    Prax Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Middle West
    I never noticed
    ...other than they all look a little different from one another.
     
  7. Amaris

    Amaris Abiding Eos Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    United States
    DS9 looked darker. VOY was more brightly lit, or at least it seemed that way. I do believe that VOY has the prettier sets, but DS9 had more enjoyable stories to where the sets were minor background details (My opinion, of course, and YMMV).
     
  8. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Sunny California
    Not at all! Fake News! Voyager was a network television production, and like Enterprise garnered a larger budget and it shows on screen. I doubt a syndicated TV series with marginal rating would get twice the money as a network series.
     
  9. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Sunny California
    Wait a minute. It's not common knowledge network television shows has a larger budget than a syndicated one???
    DS9 looked cheaper than Voyager because it was, that also includes TNG.
     
  10. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Sunny California
    I guess it all depends on the guest star who's playing the Jem'Hader character.
     
  11. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    On the run.
    Post source.
     
    SolarisOne likes this.
  12. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Sunny California
    Really??? I have to post a source of something that is commonly known??? Network television shows cost more than syndicated shows.
     
  13. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain

    Is that the case 100% of the time however?
     
  14. Farscape One

    Farscape One Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Network series do get more money thrown at them. But part of that reason is because of the amount of dollars networks charge for ads.

    Look at SUPERNATURAL as an example. The CW is by no means a big network like CBS, ABC, NBC, or FOX, but they have a very loyal following, and can get renewal after renewal with lower viewer numbers than the Big Four. One of the reasons why they are in their 13th season right now.

    Most shows on a network don't last long... 3 years is lucky. CBS shows seem to be an exception for some reason, but almost all of them are some type of procedural. I never found them appealing.

    (I have been calling CBS the Crime Broadcasting Station for years... it's about all they have.)
     
  15. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    On the run.
    We're not talking about one show that is syndicated and some other unrelated show that is on a network. We're talking about two shows made by the same company, many of the same people, of the same franchise, and for the same market and target audience.

    We can assume all we want, but if you want it to be accepted as fact, I will always same the same thing. Post source. ...Please.
     
    Firebird likes this.
  16. Prax

    Prax Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Middle West
    It's a Network series, but a baby network. I've heard that by the year 2000, UPN was available to only 65% of American viewers.
     
  17. Infern0

    Infern0 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Voyager was a flagship show for UPN, DS9 was syndicated.

    DS9 was under constant threat of cancellation while Voyager was never in danger.

    I dont know what the show budgets were but I'd not be surprised at all if Voyager had more money to throw at the screen.
     
  18. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    On the run.
    Whilst I'm sure that's true of Voyager (you don't just cancel the supposed flagship of your new network. How would that look?!) I'd be curious to see where the "constant threat of cancellation" comes from for DS9.
     
  19. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Having more money doesn't always give you a better product.
     
  20. Prax

    Prax Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Middle West
    I've never heard that. Why would either show be under threat of cancellation? Voyager was planned for 7 seasons from the get go, and DS9 at some point was planned for the same.

    Unless you're trying to say that DS9 was at risk of cancellation if the ratings dropped(below the threshold) but Voyager wasnt? If either show started losing money, I think they would have been canceled. However, neither show appears to have had any budget cuts, but rather, am enlarging budget.