DS9 Episodes- Silly Mistakes, NitPicks, Inaccuracies

[Nightdiamond]

If the series left it at what Dukat said - Both Order and Central Command answer to the Detapa Council in theory, but in practice run their own affairs, then I could see the consistancy.

When you add the statement by Ghemor, that the Obsidian Order's atonomy was granted by Central Command, and key words - and was " revokable at anytime", it does add an interesting inconsistency-how can the Order's atonomy -their rights and freedoms, and independence, be granted by the Central Command, and yet they're seperate enough to challeng C.C..

All in all, I like the chance it gives to fill in the blanks and expand upon..

 

[SilentP]

When you add the statement by Ghemor, that the Obsidian Order's atonomy was granted by Central Command, and key words - and was " revokable at anytime", it does add an interesting inconsistency-how can the Order's atonomy -their rights and freedoms, and independence, be granted by the Central Command, and yet they're seperate enough to challeng C.C..

With all the...questionable material that the Obsidian Order could uncover and reveal about any unco-operative members of the Central Command, I would suppose that for the most part that the Central Command would be reluctant to do such a bold move. I believe it would only be possible if there was massive public support for the revoking of such authority, which again runs into the same problem, only with 'Central Command' replaced with 'the public'.

 

[Anticitizen]

The Defiant doesn't seem to have any sort of docking port in the nose, yet we see it dock with DS9 nose-in.

 

[Nightdiamond]

The Defiant doesn't seem to have any sort of docking port in the nose, yet we see it dock with DS9 nose-in.

I found this at one site;

The Defiant could dock with Deep Space 9 through a port on the nose of the ship, above the main deflector dish. (: "The Search, Part I", "Defiant", "The Dogs of War")
Curiously, the docking port is not readily visible on the exterior of the Defiant......

Besides isn't that where those auto-destruct, antimatter pods located?

With all the...questionable material that the Obsidian Order could uncover and reveal about any unco-operative members of the Central Command, I would suppose that for the most part that the Central Command would be reluctant to do such a bold move.

I believe it would only be possible if there was massive public support for the revoking of such authority, which again runs into the same problem, only with 'Central Command' replaced with 'the public'.

You know, the one thing that is so interesting... any one of these concepts could used as an explanation...

Thanks to Garak, Dukat, Damar, Enabran Tain, Cardassian politics are the most intriguing-and odd form of government in Trek...

 

[Odo's_Bucket]

The Defiant doesn't seem to have any sort of docking port in the nose, yet we see it dock with DS9 nose-in.

If you look closely at the deflector dish, you will see a black triangle design. Just below that triangle, and on the deflector itself, is the docking port. It's that black thing in the bottom center of the blue deflector. That's what the crew walks through when the ship docks.

http://mackers-world.com/images/spacecraft/uss_defiant.jpg

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/m...x-Maquis_raider_fires_on_the_Defiant,_FTU.jpg


http://uss-france.strangewc.com/ds9-defiant.jpg

 

[Anticitizen]

Ah, thanks. That explains it. Now, where do the Klingons disembark when they dock nose-in in the bird of prey? Walk through the torpedo tube?

 

[Nightdiamond]

Here's another one for how the 'much fight does the Federation have' debate; or to be more accurate, how much power did the Federation have on the station;

In the Visitor, an older Jake describes how the Federation 'gives' the station to the Klingons;

Eventually the situation with the Klingons came to a head, and the Federation decided to turn over control of the station to the
Klingon Empire.

Doesn't the station belong to the Bajoran government? How can they simply turn over the station to the Klingons like that?

According to the episode, the Bajorans signed a defense pact with the Cardassian to protect themselves from the Klingons, so it's hard to imagine they would agree to this.

 

[PSGarak]

On the question as to what authority the Detapa Council had over CC or the OO, I have no trouble seeing the Council as a figurehead, almost a bone thrown to the civilians to boost morale and to give them a sense of having "representation". There is a great deal of emphasis in Cardassian society on one's place and purpose, and of course on family and family name. I liked the analogy to the Queen of England. The members of the council by their family names and connections carry a good deal of gravitas and the weight and authority of tradition. At one time they had more actual power, but it waned with the rise of the military, something never reflected on paper as it were. The Council apparently did still have some sort of authority or at least influence, because they convinced CC to withdraw from Bajor, when they clearly would rather not have done so. And like all good Cardassians, the council members were simply biding their time until they could seize more power once again, which they did very quickly thanks to the power vacuum left by the destruction of the OO. That level of speed and organization tells me that it is likely they anticipated such a thing, or at the very least had some sort of protocol in place to handle the eventuality.

As far as Tain's influence or power, it's easy for a person of Tain's mental capacity and resources to form a sort of cult of personality within an organization like the OO. While on paper, he may not have had absolute authority in Cardassian society, he created such a fearsome persona for himself that there were few willing to oppose him. It was as much about what he actually knew as what he might know. Which Cardassians, particularly of those in power, didn't have some dangerous skeletons in their closet, skeletons that could be spun to look like treason with careful wording and placement of evidence? Anything one might gain by directly opposing Tain would not likely be worth the risk.

I share the view that this is not a mistake the writers made or necessarily an inconsistency. In our own governments, how many things function exactly as they appear on paper? In reality, there is the way things are supposed to work and be done and the way they actually happen. One is rarely completely consistent with the other.

On a completely unrelated note:

One brief editing blunder I spotted in "Battle Lines" in Season 1 occurs when the Nol-Ennis are fighting the Ennis. There is a shot of Sisko without his com badge, then a brief flash of him wearing the badge as he ducks for cover, and then a third cut of him without it again, well after his com badge had been taken away.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Trek articles, books, and fandom often give info that the Detapa Council is full of military members anyway, which is why the military controls the government.

I remember reading most references to Cardassia as being a "military dictatorship"..



However, I decided to go back and review some episodes, and found a lot of interesting tidbits;



In "Chain of Command" Picard states that the military 'took over'.

Madred replies, "... we have mandated agricultural programs.That is what the military has done for Cardassia."


From "Destiny" :

We would, of course, prefer to operate that way as well... however since the Science Ministry falls under the jurisdiction of the military, we have to follow certain rules.

One of them is not to make any project look...
"unnecessarily" dangerous.

After Gilora reveals the other Cardassian is an Obsidian Order agent sent to sabotage the mission, she states;

My superiors in the science ministry will protect me. Frankly, I think Dejar is in a lot more trouble than I am. The Order doesn't reward
failure.

In "The Cardassians" Bashir asks Dukat a question about who ordered him to abandon Cardassian orphans on Bajor...

GUL DUKAT: The civilian leaders. They...

BASHIR interrupting, prepared) Excuse me. But if I understand the
Cardassian political system, the civilian leaders have no direct
authority over military officers...

Dukat doesn't deny this, and then asks where Bashir got tutoring about Cardassian social politics..

GUL DUKAT:Well, remind my old friend that the withdrawal from Bajor was a decision made by the civilian leaders... one that I clearly opposed...

and, yes, they were the ones who decided to leave the orphans behind. I've regretted that decision ever since. Thank you for your concern, Doctor..........

One of the things I like about going back and taking a look at episodes to spot something, is how fun it can be when you're looking for some information.

I think the older episodes ironically, gives the most interesting information...


So now later in the same episode, we get to this:

GUL DUKAT: Pa'Dar is an eminent member of the civilian assembly. This matter has generated a great deal of interest at the highest levels of our government.

In this case, it is a classic example of power plays, but it also shows something interesting too- The civilian government calling the shots, and Central Command obeying.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Something tells me that in order to do that, the Detapa Council would've had to call in a LOT--and I mean a LOT of favors. I think maybe they spent everything they had and wound up in an even weaker position as a result...which caused them to get overthrown entirely.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I never noticed that before - The Detapa Council ordering the withdrawal, and an exact saying that the civilian leaders had no direct control over military officer.

Yes, considering what Dukat said in "The Defiant", to make a major decision like that-over the military's objection, took big guns.

"The Cardassians" and a few 'older' DS9 episodes seem to give quite a bit of information about the structure.

 

[PSGarak]

I just thought of another nit-pick from Season 1. It's the season I most recently watched, so it's freshest in my memory. This one is from "Vortex". Odo is suspicious about some exchanges Quark is having with Ah-Kel and Ro-Kel. (Big surprise.) When Quark orders Rom to bring drinks in for everyone, Rom lifts the tray that previously contained 4 glasses but now contains 5. It's obvious that Odo is going along for the ride to find out what Quark is up to, but here's my beef.

Later on in that episode, Croden has to lift an unconscious Odo and tells him that he's heavier than he looks. I would assume that despite the fact that Odo can shift his shape, he can't change his mass. Wouldn't the tray Rom tried to lift earlier be so heavy with Odo on board that there'd be no way he could do that? It's a common complaint I have with shape shifting in sci-fi in general. Mass never seems to be taken into account!

 

[Gary Mitchell]

^ He shifted part of his mass to subspace or another dimension.

 

[Odo's_Bucket]

He formed a blanket - like outer covering on Rom. A sort of camouflaged and contouring changeling body condom. Though since Odo is bigger than Rom, there was excess. Odo, not wanting to cover Rom's head for fear of suffocating him, cleverly used his excess self to mimic a fifth glass on the tray.

 

[Odo's_Bucket]

I am an expert in all things Odo.

 

[PSGarak]

I'm having trouble buying either of those. Nowhere in the series that I recall did they ever say the shape shifters could put parts of themselves in subspace or another dimension. If they could put parts of themselves into subspace, why not all of themselves? Why not just create or occupy a nice little pocket dimension to escape from all the persecution they supposedly suffered in the Gamma Quadrant? For that matter, why not actively teleport from place to place using that ability or disappear outright when threatened?

In the scene with Rom at the bar, you clearly see Odo still sitting on the barstool when Rom walks away, and you hear the sound effect they use for him going liquid. When Rom returns, there are already five glasses on the tray. Also, even if Odo did somehow cover Rom with himself, his weight would still be on Rom, and Rom would definitely feel that. When the fight breaks out, the tray goes flying, and the glasses break. One glass reforms itself into Odo who then joins the fight. Other parts of Odo don't come slithering over from off screen. He was all there as the glass, and since he grows much larger from the glass fragments, one would have to conclude that he had packed himself in extra densely to occupy such a small amount of space.

Ack, now that I'm thinking about it more, why would Odo break? Just because he made himself look like glass doesn't mean he made himself into glass. He would be far too dense in glass form to be affected by striking a pylon. That whole scene is just whacked.

 

[Captrek]

Ack, now that I'm thinking about it more, why would Odo break? Just because he made himself look like glass doesn't mean he made himself into glass.

Actually, at a fundamental level, it does. Odo states in an early episode (I’m sure somebody here will remember which one) that if a shapeshifter disguises itself as a rock and you scan it, your scanner will read it as a rock.

That doesn’t mean he literally becomes a rock. A rock wouldn’t have the ability to change back (or the will to try). There’s still some essence of shapeshifter in there somewhere.

What it does mean is that the imitation can go far beyond color, shape, and texture. They can imitate objects well enough to fool a tricorder. Mimicking an object at the molecular level like that would mean picking up some of its physical properties.

(Another question is why bars in the 24th century would still be using glass that can shatter and hurt people when material science has certainly progressed to the point where they can create something with the same look and feel of glass but doesn’t shatter. But that’s the kind of question we’re not supposed to ask.)

 

[Nightdiamond]

I always wondered what type of material they used in the 24th century for windows - I always assumed they just used some advanced type of crystal-like material...

Then I read where something called 'transparent aluminum' was used for windows and such. So interestingly, "the glass" we see in 24th century (and a little before) was actually a metal..

Then I too, noticed how glass would easily shattered-remember Sisko breaking the glass on his console of the Defiant in "Time to Stand"?

Or the fight scene between Gowron and Worf, where Worf gets pushed through the panel and it shatters?

Good catch....



Unless a good scientific-like explanation can brought up, it looks like a Nit, but on the other hand, we're not supposed to understand how the Founders do it..

The fog thing, or even the fire thing.. THAT is really hard to explain-where are they keeping their consciousness when they're fog?

It seems they somehow can maintain their consciousness, even their awarness of what's happening outside.

 

[Odo's_Bucket]

^^^ Ahem. Joke.

 

[PSGarak]

^