DS9 Episodes- Silly Mistakes, NitPicks, Inaccuracies

[Nightdiamond]

This is not a Nit, so much as an observation- in "Sacrifice of Angels" when the Klingons escort the Defiant and are blasting away, one ship looks like it gets hit and destroyed by one of the other Klingon ships..


And I'm still trying to see...in Sacrifice of Angels", exactly what is it that the Galaxy class ship is seen destroying in the background? It looks like a Dominion Battlecruiser, but it looks so tangled and disjointed...

In "One Little Ship", the First is in the corridor talking to the Third. The Third did a little extra work on repairing the the Defiant.

This pleases the First, and he says that after the mission, the unit will need a Second-he'll recommend him to the Vorta.

After the First walks away, you can see the Third smile!

By the way, doesn't the Third sound a lot like Alexander, Worf's son as a teenager?


This may have been a long shot, but, Dax was a ranking officer and so was Obrien, being the chief engineer- couldn't they have contacted the computer from the runabout, and used their restricted codes to control the ship?


Another Observation- After seeing the Jem Hadar in DS9, I thought they were more brutal and intimidating than the Klingons..

However when you compare them side by side, sometimes the Klingons win- in this episode, the Second "suggests" that the First wait before executing the crew...

In T.N.G and DS9 it's been noted that for a subordinate to merely suggest something to a superior is enough to get him or her killed on the spot.

The Second did this repeatedly.


Which brings an actual Nit, a contradiction;

The first statement;

IXTANA'RAX : I would suggest to you that his
execution can wait until we have completed repairs to the ship.

Then a little bit later;

IXTANA'RAX :That's a mistake. Giving him access to the Engine Room will only give him an opportunity to retake the ship.
(looks at Sisko) In fact, he's working on a plan at
this very moment.

...... I know what he's thinking because it's exactly what I would be doing in his position.

You should kill him now, before he has a chance to put his plan into motion.

Contradiction from the same person...

 

[Captrek]

OK, a really minor nitpick, but for some reason it’s annoying me. From Bar Association:

QUARK: Captain, believe me, I want this strike settled as much as you do.
SISKO: Then settle it.
QUARK: It's not that simple.
SISKO: Make it simple. Sit down with your brother and hammer out an agreement today.
QUARK: Captain, I'm afraid you don't understand what a delicate situation this is. Even talking with strikers would be a violation of the most sacred precepts of Ferengi culture.
SISKO: Maybe I don't know much about Ferengi culture but I do know who holds the lease on your bar.
QUARK: The Federation. And I couldn't ask for better landlords.
SISKO: That's because we don't ask you to pay your rent, or to reimburse us for your maintenance repairs, or the drain on the station's power supply.
QUARK: You're a very generous people.
SISKO: Until today. Let's see. Five years of back rent, plus power consumption, plus the repairs. Do you know how much latinum that is?
QUARK: A lot.
SISKO: That's right.
QUARK: I'll talk to my brother.
SISKO: I'm glad we're in agreement.

Now correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Bajor owns the station and the Federation administers it. So Bajor holds the lease and is the landlord, while the Federation’s role is more akin to superintendent or property manager.

BTW, Quark’s rinky-dink little bar on the ass end of space was suddenly sitting on prime real estate when the wormhole was discovered, and he gets free rent. If he’s a decent businessman at all, his bar should be tremendously profitable, Bajoran time of cleansing or no.

Another random note: Sisko’s being a real jerk by allowing the strikers to blockade the main entrance to Quark’s and forcing patrons to use the second-level entrance.

 

[Nightdiamond]

It's a pretty good Nit, as the Bajorans, like Kira for example, have said that DS9 was a Bajoran station.

The fact that it is in Bajoran space guarantees it.

To say that the Federation holds the least on Quark's bar is the same as saying the station is Federation property.

I had the same problem with the Federation 'turning over' the staion to the Klingons in "The Visitor".

If the Bajorans were defending against the Klingons and things came to a head, how could the Federation give the station to the Klingons?

When you consider that Quark gets free rent, free security, free repairs, and free power, which are major costs to any business person, Quark should have made a killing the first 3 years.

He ran a bar/catering business/eatery/gambling casino/holosuite/illegal merchandising/illegal information/smuggling establishment -he HAD to have made profit!

And also, for the idea of how the Federation treats a former enemy versus a strong ally - the Federation gave 12 industrial replicators to the Cardassians, but only two to Bajor.

The Cardassians have constantly caused grief for the Federation and even turned on them eventually.

Bajor has always been there for the Federation, thick and thin, and yet they get only two replicators?

Then again, they provided free military protection, and resources-opened their borders to Bajoran citizens, so I think they've been fair enough.

Still, you can almost imagine the expressions on the faces of former Maqui members after learning that Cardassia joined the Dominion..

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

About the industrial replicators...I would be curious how many it takes for a particular population. It seems to me the Cardassian Union's population is far more than that of Bajor, given how many worlds the Union spans. For the Cardassian Union's population to be six times that of Bajor--or even more than that--would be perfectly believable. So, perhaps it's in proportion to population?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

About the industrial replicators...I would be curious how many it takes for a particular population. It seems to me the Cardassian Union's population is far more than that of Bajor, given how many worlds the Union spans. For the Cardassian Union's population to be six times that of Bajor--or even more than that--would be perfectly believable. So, perhaps it's in proportion to population?

Exactly. Bajor is one world, the Union an interstellar nation covering dozens of systems, many of which were damaged by Klingon aggression. Cardassia probably needs far more than Bajor.

 

[Fish1941]

I have a major nitpick. The mirror universe episodes started out great and became increasingly bad. The last two seemed badly written.

 

[PSGarak]

Exactly. Bajor is one world, the Union an interstellar nation covering dozens of systems, many of which were damaged by Klingon aggression. Cardassia probably needs far more than Bajor.

Of course the glorious Union needs far more than Bajor. It is a burden to be so great.

 

[Nightdiamond]

You're right, and the episodes actually say that too, but can you imagine being a former Maqui, possibly in prison, and just heard that Cardassia had just joined the Dominion? And then think about the replicators?

The teeth gritting?

They would say, or ask, why would Starfleet start interfering in 'other affairs' now, when they did nothing like that for Bajor when it was occupied?





I think, sometimes Starfleet/Federation can be a bit rough in how they say things to the Bajorans.

KIRA:The Federation's only given Bajor
two CFI replicators.

EDDINGTON:With all due respect, Bajor is just one planet. The Klingons
have destroyed the industrial base of literally dozens of Cardassian
worlds. With twelve CFI replicators, they can at least
start building new power plants and factories.

Of course, Eddington hated the idea, but he gave Starfleet's official answer to a question like that.

Kira made the comment, most likely because it either hurt her (the Bajorans) or it seemed a bit unfair.

In a way, it seems a little rough to say Bajor is "just one planet" after what they've been through. They were still arguing over soil regenerators..

Later in "Shadows and Symbols", the Bajorans learn that the Romulans have set up weapon launchers on one of their moons. They want them removed immediately, and go to Admiral Ross about it;

ROSS: Don't worry, colonel. Eventually, the Romulans will remove those weapons.

KIRA:When? Are we talking days, weeks, months?

ROSS:I don't know -- but it will happen.

KIRA:Now you're starting to sound like a politician, admiral.


ROSS:Maybe so.

But facts are facts, colonel. There's no way the Bajorans are
going to drive the Romulans off Derna. Not without help, anyway.
And the Federation isn't going to provide that help. Not now.

Is that clear?

KIRA: We're just not as important to the war effort as the Romulans.

ROSS:That's a harsh way to put it.

KIRA:The truth often is.

ROSS :I really would like to help you, colonel, but my hands are tied.

I know Starfleet is thinking of the greater good for all, but that was almost a rude way to put it. Between DS9, and what Kira did later, I'd say they were really important, or at least, just as important as the Romulans were.



The mirror universe, especially the original trek episode, was classic science fiction to me. The very last one was , in my opinion didn't work at all.


It was as if they got carried away with changing the personalities of the characters to their opposites. It seemed more like a comedy/soap opera, than a science fiction mirror alternate universe...

 

[Nightdiamond]

How Many Ships Does It Take To Start A War....

In the Die is Cast, it is said that a fleet of 20 ships is sent to the Gamma Quadrant.

They get wiped out by the jem hadar ambush. Later, a changeling tells Odo that both the Romulans and Cardassian empires are vulnerable;

LOVOK:After today the only real threats to us from the Alpha Quadrant are the Klingons and the Federation. And I doubt either of them will be a threat for much longer.

A question I have is how does destroying only 20 ships make the Romulans and Cardassians less of a threat? And some of those ships were specially constructed by the Obsidian Order - ("The Defiant") which means the main Cardassian fleet was untouched by this event.

I'm sure both powers have much more ships than that to defend their territory, so how can destruction of such a small number of ships make them less of a threat?

Ironically, the very same Romulans would enter the war later, with a full fleet, Obsidian order intact, and turn the tide of the war against the Dominion.


Plus, Enabrain made something of a mistake - he thought the Founders personally controlled and distributed the drug to the Jem Hadar- we find out-in a simple conversation-that it is the Vorta that does this, with the Founders having little to nothing to do with it on a daily basis.

Theoretically, the Dominion could still function, although would have a serious morale problem.


At this point, is Federation shielding still inadequate against the Dominion weapons? Eddington says a task force of 9 starships were being sent to boilster DS9.

If this is before the DS9 weapons upgrade, would 9 starships really be enough at this point-the Dominion sent 150 ships just to wipe out 20 starships...

 

[PSGarak]

How Many Ships Does It Take To Start A War....

In the Die is Cast, it is said that a fleet of 20 ships is sent to the Gamma Quadrant.

They get wiped out by the jem hadar ambush. Later, a changeling tells Odo that both the Romulans and Cardassian empires are vulnerable;

LOVOK:After today the only real threats to us from the Alpha Quadrant are the Klingons and the Federation. And I doubt either of them will be a threat for much longer.

A question I have is how does destroying only 20 ships make the Romulans and Cardassians less of a threat? And some of those ships were specially constructed by the Obsidian Order - ("The Defiant") which means the main Cardassian fleet was untouched by this event.

I'm sure both powers have much more ships than that to defend their territory, so how can destruction of such a small number of ships make them less of a threat?

Ironically, the very same Romulans would enter the war later, with a full fleet, Obsidian order intact, and turn the tide of the war against the Dominion.


Plus, Enabrain made something of a mistake - he thought the Founders personally controlled and distributed the drug to the Jem Hadar- we find out-in a simple conversation-that it is the Vorta that does this, with the Founders having little to nothing to do with it on a daily basis.

Theoretically, the Dominion could still function, although would have a serious morale problem.


At this point, is Federation shielding still inadequate against the Dominion weapons? Eddington says a task force of 9 starships were being sent to boilster DS9.

If this is before the DS9 weapons upgrade, would 9 starships really be enough at this point-the Dominion sent 150 ships just to wipe out 20 starships...

I'm not so sure that the Founder was specifically referencing the fact that the Cardassians and the Romulans lost "x" number of ships. I feel that the implication in that is that who they lost made them more vulnerable. We didn't get to see the effect on Romulan society, but the loss of so many OO operatives left a huge power vacuum on Cardassia that destabilized the entire government. If the Tal Shiar put that many of their own eggs in that basket, it could have had a similar effect on their world, too. The fact that they managed to recover later and still get in the fight just seems to imply that their government was a bit more stable in structure.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I'm not so sure that the Founder was specifically referencing the fact that the Cardassians and the Romulans lost "x" number of ships. I feel that the implication in that is that who they lost made them more vulnerable. We didn't get to see the effect on Romulan society, but the loss of so many OO operatives left a huge power vacuum on Cardassia that destabilized the entire government. If the Tal Shiar put that many of their own eggs in that basket, it could have had a similar effect on their world, too. The fact that they managed to recover later and still get in the fight just seems to imply that their government was a bit more stable in structure.

I think I should 'upgrade' that one away from a Nit-that makes sense.


If we're talking about wiping out both intelligence agencies, then the Founders definetly reduced them as a threat.

The Cardassians especially, had to rearrange everything, and the Obsidian Order was way too compromised to survive.

Somehow, the Tal Shiar managed to survived, I thought for sure what happened to the O.O would have happened to them too - Coloneal Lovok was replaced by a Changeling, which probly meant they got access to highly classified Romulan secrets.

Still the 9 starships sent to defend Ds9- at this point Starfleet has really no defense against Dominion weapons, and the station hadn't been upgraded yet- considering the Dominion sends its ships in large swarms, wouldn't it had been advisible to send a larger fleet?

 

[Thor Damar]

Exactly. Bajor is one world, the Union an interstellar nation covering dozens of systems, many of which were damaged by Klingon aggression. Cardassia probably needs far more than Bajor.

Of course the glorious Union needs far more than Bajor. It is a burden to be so great.

Indeed, it is a terrible burden to carry.

It is also worth noting a couple of salient facts vis a vis the industrial replicators, firstly the Government of the Union at that time is the Democratic Depata Council which was undertaking peace takes with the Klingons, secondly the replicators were stolen by the Maquis themselves dooming millions of Cardassian civilians to starvation and disease thus paving the way for Dukat's takover of the Union.

Sometimes the Cardassians are not always the villains of the piece...

 

[TeutonicNights]

I just watched "Past Prologue", the episode where the Khon Ma guys *SPOILERS*


try to collapse the wormhole entrance with a belitrium bomb.
Well I love this episode, but the plot makes no sense.

- How did Tahna Los manage to keep his Antimatter converter hidden? Why didn't the transporter detect it? Did he have it under his coat when he beamed over?
- Why did Sisko give Tahna a fully functional ship? He knew Tahna would have a bomb and he knew the exact type of explosive he was about to use.

We later learn it could make the whole system uninhabitable too!
But there was no way to remote control the runabout? a hidden knob for Kira to stun Tahna or lock out all ship functions? Tahna almost succeeded BTW. That would have been a fun report to starfleet I'd suppose.

- I find it odd and rather unbelievable that Tahna really thought Kira had switched to his side. Let's say the Khon Ma only had impulse ships and they needed a Warp ship for their plan (which is really the only reason using DS9 in the first place), even then "asking Kira", meeting the Duras Sisters on a Feddie station (Tahna thought no one would care?) and not expecting anything was actually a pretty dumb idea.
Turns out Starfleet was even dumber and it was actually a great plan lol...

 

[Nightdiamond]

I just watched "Past Prologue", the episode where the Khon Ma guys *SPOILERS*


try to collapse the wormhole entrance with a belitrium bomb.
Well I love this episode, but the plot makes no sense.

- How did Tahna Los manage to keep his Antimatter converter hidden? Why didn't the transporter detect it? Did he have it under his coat when he beamed over?
- Why did Sisko give Tahna a fully functional ship? He knew Tahna would have a bomb and he knew the exact type of explosive he was about to use.

We later learn it could make the whole system uninhabitable too!
But there was no way to remote control the runabout? a hidden knob for Kira to stun Tahna or lock out all ship functions? Tahna almost succeeded BTW. That would have been a fun report to starfleet I'd suppose.

- I find it odd and rather unbelievable that Tahna really thought Kira had switched to his side. Let's say the Khon Ma only had impulse ships and they needed a Warp ship for their plan (which is really the only reason using DS9 in the first place), even then "asking Kira", meeting the Duras Sisters on a Feddie station (Tahna thought no one would care?) and not expecting anything was actually a pretty dumb idea.
Turns out Starfleet was even dumber and it was actually a great plan lol...

I noticed that- remember T.N.G in one episode where they were able to collapse the shields of another ship because they had some type of code?

They were going to give it to the Cardassians to disable the ship before it attacked another Cardassian target, I think.

But here, this is too easy, for a single fanatical person to accomplish all of that.

I don't know if he disabled anything before he left the station, but couldn't they have just beamed him out of there?

And the Khon Ma mentality was hard to figure out- leaving the system uninhabitable would leave Bajor into a far worse condition....

 

[ClayHefner]

I don't know if he disabled anything before he left the station, but couldn't they have just beamed him out of there?

I think the best way to fix it would have been if the Khon-Ma had misled the Feddies to think they were about to attack another place and Sisko would be waiting in the wrong spot. But having a second runabout waiting and STILL not atleast be able to catch up to Tahna was making the Feds look stupid and incompetent.
At least O'Brien said beaming while at warp was "not recommended".
That was still kinda odd, considering in TNG they beamed over to the Borg ship at Warp, but maybe the runabout transporters weren't strong enough.
Why were Kira and Tahna adressing each other with last names btw? It's like they forgot for one episode that "Kira" and "Tahna" were their family names.

But I found another oddity:
In "Armageddon Game", why don't they just put all the Harvester weapons into an unmanned probe and fly them into the sun?

 

[DevilEyes]

That was still kinda odd, considering in TNG they beamed over to the Borg ship at Warp, but maybe the runabout transporters weren't strong enough.
Why were Kira and Tahna adressing each other with last names btw? It's like they forgot for one episode that "Kira" and "Tahna" were their family names.

Haven't you ever heard old buddies - particularly those who have served together in the army - calling each other by their last names? It's not even unusual in schools, almost all the kids in my class in high school called each other by their last names, or a nickname derived from it. I don't see how it is so unusual for Kira and Tahna, old buddies from the Resistance, to call each other by their last names. They're not relatives.

 

[ClayHefner]

Haven't you ever heard old buddies - particularly those who have served together in the army - calling each other by their last names? It's not even unusual in schools, almost all the kids in my class in high school called each other by their last names, or a nickname derived from it. I don't see how it is so unusual for Kira and Tahna, old buddies from the Resistance, to call each other by their last names. They're not relatives.

Yeah, I suppose it does make sense.
I was just wondering if, at the beginning of the series, a writer might have gotten the Bajoran name concept wrong.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

That was still kinda odd, considering in TNG they beamed over to the Borg ship at Warp, but maybe the runabout transporters weren't strong enough.
Why were Kira and Tahna adressing each other with last names btw? It's like they forgot for one episode that "Kira" and "Tahna" were their family names.

Haven't you ever heard old buddies - particularly those who have served together in the army - calling each other by their last names? It's not even unusual in schools, almost all the kids in my class in high school called each other by their last names, or a nickname derived from it. I don't see how it is so unusual for Kira and Tahna, old buddies from the Resistance, to call each other by their last names. They're not relatives.

You're definitely right about Army buddies.

And with some cultures--though I don't think the Bajorans are so much this way--it seems that giving someone your first name is only something you do when you become close to someone. (The Cardassians seem to be this way, preferring to use last names until they get very comfortable with you.)

 

[DevilEyes]

^ and there's also Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson...

"Good god, Holmes!"
"My dear Watson..."

 

[Nightdiamond]

I ve been looking at "Way of the Warrior" -

The Defiant stopped inside DS9's ring but before the battle, but it goes missing. When Sisko order the phasers to be fired, you can see a wide shot of the DS9 firing phasers and the Defiant is gone!


This is one of the first times we see that that the Bird Of Prey has been scaled down from a large ship roughly the size of the Enterprise, to a smaller, attack style warship.

Warfare is also changing- from going to a slower fire-return fire sequence, to fast rapid firing, fire glow on the hulls, messy explosion and chaos....

I really have to apply a Nit to the fight scenes in this episode. The Starfleet officers look like super warriors!


Someone already pointed out one scene where the Klingons beam aboard the station; Garak and Dukat are in the doorway, standing guard, fighting them off.

At one point, two Klingons are trying to overpower Dukat, and Garak is right there with his back to them, facing the open hallway.

Is the Nit on Garak for not turning around to help? No, on the Klingons for standing right by Garak less than 6 feet- and doing nothing to Garak!

Either one of them could attacked Garak as he had his back or side to them.

And Dukat is cornered against the door by two Klingons and still manages to fight them off....

Odo looks alarmed when a Klingon attempts to attack him with a Bat'leth. The Nit is on Odo, for seeming alarmed, seeing he's a Changeling in the first place.

In Opts, after the Klingons beam aboard, Worf is made to look like a super sensei. He fights three Klingons at once, defeats two, then kills or stabs the other one from behind without looking.

And the one he stabs from behind? He originally got stabbed two times by worf in his first attack, then he falls back, and then gets back up, that's tough.

Remember the episode where Worf catches a knife with one hand thrown by Martok at Khor?

Worf always pulls it off well, though-we know he's a master in martial arts and practices rigidly.



Kira's fight scene I liked. She gets stabbed from behind, then drawing from her training, she pulls it out, ignores the pain, and quckly dispatches the attacker as fast as she can.

By the way, Kira's hairstyle is the best during this period.

Sisko looks good as well, everyone seems in shape.


Dax fights off two Klingons, and with the second one, she blocks his thrust, then simply kicks him in the mid section and he goes down and doesn't get back up..


It's interesting that the Klingons were able to take down the shields and beam aboard the station, whereas the Dominion later on weren't able to do it -although they got pretty close.

Can someone please look at these fight scenes and tell me what they think???