Drop the S31 show for a Captain Pike show?

[Alan Roi]

Somewhere. Trek still makes most of its money in America.

I would point out the last 2 films made more money outside America. This day and age there's far more growth potential for the franchise globally than domestically as new fans are more open to new trek, it would seem while many (but not all) older fans what Trek the way it used to be (and therefore not a source of growth).

 

[Alan Roi]

You forgot about the other options that the votes of people who want to watch the series about S31 were split into. Why doesn't that surprise me? Apart from that, so far fewer people have participated in this survey than even those voting for the grade 10 in the thread about the last episode of the second series. So it's not worth to draw any conclusions from this survey except that a small part of fans on this ST forum doesn't like S31.

It certainly going to be a reminder of how Discovery started I think next year when the show gets of the ground given how much energy this small portion of fandom gets from their outrage about any Trek not being Father Knows Best in Space. I expect some lively discussions about how protagonists even if they are not totally irredeemably evil not making the most absolute most moral decisions has killed Star Trek yet again.

 

[Alan Roi]

I do find it interesting how people who look upon Pike as the Savior of Star Trek ,tend to dismiss any blanches on his character as illogical writing despite how consistent the character was over the course of the season. His fetish for self-sacrifice that he exhibits from day one of the season is ignored when he just nods when Airiam demands to be sacrificed, when Michael says she must die to attract the Red Angel angel in a particularly horrible way and when he doesn't take extraordinary efforts to save Admiral Cornwell. This is your guy, people. The man who loves the idea of the noble sacrifice so much that he practically encourages it, even when not exactly necessary or prudent.

I'm thinking that Cornwell actually made the wise choice in keeping the Enterprise out of the war as Pike would probably have been way to eager to put it to the most noble of ends.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, it's a choice. Maybe people should start their own poll with only one option in order to try and get people to agree with them?

What an odd thing to say...

I don't like chicken! TAKE CHICKEN OFF THE @#$% MENU!!! STEAK ONLY, YOU BASTARDS!!!!

No chicken will contaminate my sacred steak!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rahul]

I do find it interesting how people who look upon Pike as the Savior of Star Trek ,tend to dismiss any blanches on his character as illogical writing despite how consistent the character was over the course of the season. His fetish for self-sacrifice that he exhibits from day one of the season is ignored when he just nods when Airiam demands to be sacrificed, when Michael says she must die to attract the Red Angel angel in a particularly horrible way and when he doesn't take extraordinary efforts to save Admiral Cornwell. This is your guy, people. The man who loves the idea of the noble sacrifice so much that he practically encourages it, even when not exactly necessary or prudent.

You know what? I'm actually completely with you on this part, though I come to a completely different conclusion.

Pike is too soft. When Saru questioned his authority in front of everyone, he should have restored order immediately, instead of letting everything play out. He did the right thing - but very late. And this really wasn't a flub by the writers - he is very consistent with this. He is very definitely a more laissez-faire/democratic leadership type of guy.

And you know what? This is awesome. This is a serious character flaw that he has. And a consistent one at that, so it even encourages stuff like "character arc" and "development". Because this flaw isn't critical, but it's consistent. It's also very human. But he need to get better at situational awareness in some situations.

This is also a personality trait extremely rare - and thusfore so much more valuable - on the current television landscape. Everyone always seem to lean haaard on the "tough guy, tough choices" tropes. Just look at Lorca. And genuine good guys always get shafted, or proven wrong (Eddard Stark from GoT anyone?). It's really re-freshing to see such a different approach, faults included, but still successfull, especially since it IMO much better fits with the stance "Star Trek" was founded on regarding these issues.

I would disagree though that he has a thing for self-sacrifice. That is much more Michael Burnham's thing - but for her, the universe always turns out for her sacrifice to be necessary, so there is really not much for her to learn. She's been right all the time. Wheras for Pike's thing is more that he really wants to lead from within, not from the top. Which is the right approach for many situations, but not all, and I genuinely want to see him grow as a character.

 

[BillJ]

He is very definitely a more laissez-faire/democratic leadership type of guy.

Which is a change from who he was in "The Cage".

 

[Rahul]

Which is a change from who he was in "The Cage".

I honestly don't remember his leadership style from "the cage". It's too long ago. I just remember him being very stern, and cold. But mostly he interacted with opponents (the Talosians, and Vina whom he couln't comprehend). With his doctor he was much more open about his self-doubt, and when they were beaming down, laughing at plants and stuff, also didn't really felt like the strong authoritarian type of leadership.

But then I don't really remember how he was as a Captain to the rest of the crew, and I might just remember up these nuggets because they are more in line with how Anson Mount played it (though Mount definitely had more Shatner-like Swagger).

 

[fireproof78]

Which is a change from who he was in "The Cage".

He also was, as described by his physician, not acting like himself. So, "The Cage" is perhaps not the best benchmark. However, it's also the only one we have, so I can see the difficulty. But, I certainly don't have a problem with the transition and would hope that leaders would grow, change and become more effective over their tenure.

 

[Alan Roi]

I honestly don't remember his leadership style from "the cage". It's too long ago. I just remember him being very stern, and cold. But mostly he interacted with opponents (the Talosians, and Vina whom he couln't comprehend). With his doctor he was much more open about his self-doubt, and when they were beaming down, laughing at plants and stuff, also didn't really felt like the strong authoritarian type of leadership.

But then I don't really remember how he was as a Captain to the rest of the crew, and I might just remember up these nuggets because they are more in line with how Anson Mount played it (though Mount definitely had more Shatner-like Swagger).

I don't get a TOS Shatner vibe from Mount's Pike. He gives off more of a Movie series vibe than Kirk was, and such, he projects less swagger and more vulnerability to me.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Although, Disco's kinda already that.

If anything’s just a nostalgia fest it’s Orville.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

My only reason for not being that interested in a Pike show is we know way too much about all the characters’ futures.

 

[seigezunt]

In an era of "there are good people on both sides", I'm not sure it sends a good message of having Space Stalin leading the intelligence arm of a supposed evolved Federation. YMMV.

OMG that's it! The producers of DSC are an alt-right sleeper cell softening us up for fascism.

 

[fireproof78]

OMG that's it! The producers of DSC are an alt-right sleeper cell softening us up for fascism.

It's so obvious. And people think I listen to the episodes backwards just because. It's really to hear the subliminal messaging.

 

[SJGardner]

It's so obvious. And people think I listen to the episodes backwards just because. It's really to hear the subliminal messaging.

Weird, the only subliminal messaging I've been able to find is that if you speed up the episodes by 800%, you can actually hear that the ambient hum of both the ship's engines and the space shots is just the whole cast repeating the word "Burnham" in a dreamy voice, over and over.

 

[fireproof78]

Weird, the only subliminal messaging I've been able to find is that if you speed up the episodes by 800%, you can actually hear that the ambient hum of both the ship's engines and the space shots is just the whole cast repeating the word "Burnham" in a dreamy voice, over and over.

I didn't say it was good subliminal messaging.

 

[Lord Garth]

OMG that's it! The producers of DSC are an alt-right sleeper cell softening us up for fascism.

I've never so hoped for a thread to die a Page 2 Death.

 

[Mudd]

If anything’s just a nostalgia fest it’s Orville.

 

[Visitor1982]

If anything’s just a nostalgia fest it’s Orville.

Couldn't agree more. It's really, really bad TV.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

Couldn't agree more. It's really, really bad TV.

Someone probably said the same thing about the romulans a century ago...

...I mean about discovery

It’s all relative (but then again I love the Orville) hehe

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

I've never so hoped for a thread to die a Page 2 Death.

It would just reemerge elsewhere. The hydra effect.