Drop the S31 show for a Captain Pike show?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Tom, May 2, 2019.

?

Drop the Section 31 show for a the Pike show?

  1. Yes, I want a Pike show, and do not want a Section 31 show.

    124 vote(s)
    55.9%
  2. No, I want a Section 31 show, and do not want a show with Pike.

    9 vote(s)
    4.1%
  3. I want a show that feature both Pike and crew on the Enterprise and Section 31 with Georgiou.

    23 vote(s)
    10.4%
  4. I trust CBS to give me something I will like!

    12 vote(s)
    5.4%
  5. I want to see both! as separate shows.

    54 vote(s)
    24.3%
  1. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Location:
    Schenectady
    ???????
    I really rather doubt that Captain Picard would ever have treated his bridge crew the way Jellico did, war or not.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Covington, Ky. USA
    Go watch how he treats Riker in "Farpoint". He isn't someone interested in excuses, he is interested in having his orders followed.
     
  3. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Location:
    Schenectady
    One Instance in the very first episode, which BTW was a test of Picard's new #1 (Riker's) abilities more than any indication of the Captain being any kind of "hard ass".

    I think you're projecting what you would have like to have seen Picard become, more than what we actually saw over seven seasons.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Covington, Ky. USA
    Picard could be a hardass with the best of them.
     
  5. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Location:
    Schenectady
    Undoubtedly, but it was never Picard's modus operandi on a daily or even very often basis.
    Unlike Captain Jellico who appeared to be in that mode constantly and relied on it to keep his crew in check 24/7.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Covington, Ky. USA
    Actually, he didn't. He didn't become the hardass until the crew started pushing back on his orders because he wasn't coddling them like Picard. He came on board the Enterprise, was very cordial with Riker, until Riker decided not to follow his orders and not even communicate with him that he wasn't carrying them out. I tend to think that Picard would've soured quickly on Rlker, if he came out of the Battle Bridge ready room an hour later and the saucer hadn't been reconnected. With Riker saying that the other officers didn't think it was a good idea and he was going to tell Picard later.

    They tried to write Jellico as the ass of the story, mistreating the poor downtrodden Enterprise crew, but what they did was make the crew look bad and ill prepared to do their jobs.
     
    Nenya likes this.
  7. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Jellico did nothing wrong, prepared a whiny crew complaining about "that's not how Captain Picard did it" for a potential war and made Troi wear a proper uniform. Riker's behaviour was embarrassing.
     
    Agony_Boothb, Kzinti and Nenya like this.
  8. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2001
    Honestly, I want both but if you asked me which one I want more? Pike.
     
  9. lazarus+

    lazarus+ Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    the thing that resonates with me about jellico to this day:

    no one said that what he asked for was impossible, just that it was difficult

    in other words, they didn't want to do it because they foresaw difficulty, not because they foresaw impossibility

    regardless of concerns about whether it is a "better way" you do the job the captain ordered you to do.
     
    Agony_Boothb, Lord Garth and BillJ like this.
  10. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Location:
    None Given
    Um...then what's the difference that your attempting to make with Jellico? Riker DISOBEYED a simple order - and didn't even notify Jellico in a timely fashion about the Dept. Heads concerns either. Riker failed out of the gate for his new Captain big time on a very simple and straightforward order.
     
    BillJ likes this.
  11. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    He might have if the crew turned into the kind of whiny bitches with him they did with Jellico.

    But here's something people overlook when they complain that Jellico was an unfair hardass. The crew whined just as much as they did in Chain of Command as they did in Sins of the Father when Kurn was acting XO and enforced a strict regime in the Enterprise, and that was with Picard's supervision and blessing.
    Indeed, which is proven by the scene with Geordi reacting to Jellico's wishes like "that's totally impossible" and then Data steps in and explains how it's totally possible.
     
    BillJ likes this.
  12. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
  13. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    Alan Roi and antinoos like this.
  14. Serveaux

    Serveaux American Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Location:
    Not Dead Yet
    Riker beat the Borg. Jellico...did what, exactly?

    Jellico was an insecure, blustering little bitch. When the chips were down, he had to go to Riker and ask for his help. That Jellico needed to do a little dick-waving in the process, sharing his low opinion of Riker in the process of the ask, reflects poorly on Jellico; evidence of his insecurity.
     
  15. Serveaux

    Serveaux American Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Location:
    Not Dead Yet
  16. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Covington, Ky. USA
    Kept the Federation out of another war with the Cardassians? He was able to put aside his personal feelings and do the job assigned, which was probably why he was given command of the Enterprise over Riker to begin with.

    The fact that he went to Riker showed he was able to put the mission over his personal feelings. I liked the dig he made about Riker not being a very good first officer. I mean, where was Riker at that the Enterprise needed so many changes to be put on a defensive footing? What exactly had him and Picard been doing over the last couple of years? Starfleet may not be "the military" but they are clearly the defensive arm of the Federation, which means all ships (especially a sector command ship) should be able to swing to a defensive/offensive footing relatively easily.

    I remember seeing the episode differently when I was 22 and it originally debuted. Thought Jellico was such a dick. As I climbed the corporate ladder, I found I preferred working for people like Jellico, who were just straight forward with what they wanted without blowing smoke up my ass.
     
  17. Serveaux

    Serveaux American Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Location:
    Not Dead Yet
    Over the decades I've found that people who behave like dicks are usually dicks.*

    Jellico got the job over Riker because it suited the writers. Based on Riker's past performance there was no reason at all for it.


    *Nolo contendre
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ History's Greatest Monster Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Covington, Ky. USA
    Of course.
     
  19. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Location:
    Schenectady
    I think that episode points out explicitly that the Enterprise-D was never meant to be a 'warship'.
    And that its Captain and Crew spent the previous six years treating it as the floating Science ship/Hotel it was.
    They were completely unprepared for the task at hand and why Jellico got so much pushback.
     
  20. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    They were unprepared because the writers used weak technobabble as the reason for Picard to become black ops and be captured. “When I was on the Stargazer, we conducted extensive tests using theta band carrier waves. One of the reasons I was selected for this mission is my familiarity with the methods used for generating them.” Who would normally suggest that Picard couldn’t handle those negotiations?
     
    Serveaux, lazarus+ and Paul Weaver like this.