Drop the S31 show for a Captain Pike show?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Tom, May 2, 2019.

?

Drop the Section 31 show for a the Pike show?

  1. Yes, I want a Pike show, and do not want a Section 31 show.

    117 vote(s)
    55.5%
  2. No, I want a Section 31 show, and do not want a show with Pike.

    9 vote(s)
    4.3%
  3. I want a show that feature both Pike and crew on the Enterprise and Section 31 with Georgiou.

    21 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. I trust CBS to give me something I will like!

    12 vote(s)
    5.7%
  5. I want to see both! as separate shows.

    52 vote(s)
    24.6%
  1. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Here is the thing though: Rules need to be codified. And the application of this code -or law - in fringe cases - that's IMO the truly interesting stuff!

    A typical prime directive episode SHOULD be:
    • The PD forbids us to interfere. How can we help regardless without breaking it?
    • Other cases: The Klingons have already broken the PD - do we ignore or try to reverse their interference? How far are we willing to go?
    Instead most episodes go the stupid "do we help our dont help?"-route. Which is trite - if the menace is external (other aliens taking over, space phenomena threatening the while planet,...) you help, if the problems are self-made (dictatorships, war, famine...) you don't help, except after being specifically invited to do so. And you don't give planner-threatening technology (warp cores, anti-matter) to people that weren't able to discover them on their own.

    There's just no meat in arguing such standard cases.
     
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  2. Gonzo

    Gonzo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I always liked the approach in the non canon Shatner books, with the overriding idea being that the older more advanced species like the First Federation and Preservers are trying to teach the Federation/Starfleet the folly of the Prime Directive.
     
  3. Dave Scarpa

    Dave Scarpa Commander Red Shirt

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    After Q&A please no.
     
  4. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You'd rather have Them do it before????
     
  5. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I suspect Mr. Scarpa doesn't like smiling Vulcans (like Spock in Amok Time).
     
  6. The Santalorian

    The Santalorian THIS IS THE SLEIGH Moderator

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    So, you were on board for a Pike show throughout his depiction in S2, but because a completely different person who had nothing to do with that wrote a fifteen minute short mostly centered on Spock and Number One where Pike featured in about thirty seconds of it, a potential Pike series which is probably not going to happen anyway is now a total dealbreaker for you? Does that about sum it up? Solid reasoning.
     
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  7. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    From another thread he created, he apparently doesn't care for any Spock, except Nimoy's.

    But then that begs the question, does he hate/ignore Nimoy's Spock every time he smiled or showed any emotion?
     
  8. Rainard Fox

    Rainard Fox Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Psst, I had the same reaction when watched "The Cage" after TOS season 1.
    It's pre-"The Cage" Spock in "Q&A". In my opinion they understand him brilliantly. He's not a Vulcan and not only half-Vulcan, he's half-Human.
    I remember the times when I thought that entire "The Cage" with emotional, smiling and shouting Spock was a mistake. Now I see his evolution logical.
    PS: Want Pike series much more after "Q&A"!
     
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  9. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Have you seen 'The Cage'? Because this is that Spock, but a couple years earlier.
     
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  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Probably. #notrealspock
     
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  11. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well maybe the axis of stupid (Dumbcock and the like) told him to.
     
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  12. starsuperion

    starsuperion Commodore Commodore

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    Nimoy explains in a video that in the beginning, during the Cage, the idea of Vulcans and their adherence to pure logic had not yet come about, it wasn't until later when they recast the crew and did a new pilot, that the idea of pure logic came into being as a Vulcanian trait.
    This could almost be overlooked except for the few instances of Nimoy's early portrayal that he felt ultimately wasn't superior and better to present the character. indeed much of Spock's drama came from his battle to adhere to logic over emotion, and this made the character tragic and heroic and intriguing all at once. To remove that for the sake of fan wank, and explain his 25% difference due to the Cage, is stretching the credulity of informed reason and belief. I think that having the character have been more like Spock post pilot, would have kept the unmentioned pass the collective fandom gave to it. It did not need a story and justification for changing the character's personality and built on a flimsy foundation at best.
    The Vulcan Back story, and their history should be more important. That tradition of logic is based on how brutal their race could be with unbridled emotion almost destroying themselves in the process, this would be a core tenant for Vulcans, almost akin to the collective psyche in all anime who reference the atom bomb mushroom cloud. It is a collective consciousness type deal, as well as actual history. It is missing in the emotional portrayal of Spock, especially someone raised as a traditional vulcan.
     
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    It's not 25% different. It is looking at the character as presented in all material, including the Cage, which features so prominently in this Season's story. Spock is someone who always struggled between those two halves of himself, and he wasn't always perfectly logical. I think portraying him as younger and less under control is a more realistic portray of someone who growing in to his identity.

    Also, the 25% difference crap is just that...crap. Has no bearing on how the story is made.
     
  14. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So ends, the Trek sermon for the day.
    AMEN
    :vulcan:
     
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  15. starsuperion

    starsuperion Commodore Commodore

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    Pffft! He's emotional and not as reserved because of his Youth eh?
    Vorik was about Spock's age and he was much more reserved and felt more vulcan, then Peck-Spock.
    [​IMG]
    The Core tenant of their culture is Logic. Not to show or feel emotion. This is intrinsic to the species as a whole. Early Spock did not necessarily need to be portrayed that way, which is at odds with the whole concept of their revered traditions and teachings on logical lifestyle and mental conditioning. Given the species abilities in telepathy and other mental abilities, it makes sense there would be a strong aversion to laughing.. a smirk.. maybe. but sheesh. even in the cage, Spock did not laugh like that short trek. unreal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  16. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You got that clip from Nerdrotic, didn't you?
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    And Spock is half human. Vorik was also not always the most logical.

    And if Nimoy was ok with Quinto Spock, I can live with Peck Spock.

    YMMV.
     
  18. starsuperion

    starsuperion Commodore Commodore

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    No it's actually in my feed. I've been watching a lot of 50th anniversary stuff, and some new found interest in Star Trek continues, The Trek yards break down, love Capn Foley, and a few other vids on ship analysis and so on. there's way better things to pay attention to on youtube if you know where to look.
     
  19. starsuperion

    starsuperion Commodore Commodore

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    I can respect that POV.. I can.
    I just draw the line at Spock Laughing without something being wrong with him. I mean, it physically hurt him to laugh. If it wasn't some alien influence or chemical agent. He would writhe in pain being forced to feel emotions. Peck is just not coming off as Spock to me. I just don't feel it. Vorik was only illogical to me when he was in the throws of Pon Far. other then that, I think he was pretty consistent.
     
  20. Rainard Fox

    Rainard Fox Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Was Vorik half-Human too?:vulcan:
    We all know now how looks Human trying to be more Vulcan than pureblood Vulcans. Like Burnham! Spock ever was more human-like.