Dollhouse: "Man on the Street" (episode 6)

[tharpdevenport]

Flowers line was in the promo, but it was jsut an over voice, not letting us know for what exactly it was for.

You'd think with 20 Dollhouses around the world that by now they'd have a fucking grip on things, yet here we have a Handler raping a Doll, leaks, and now it looks like some of them may start rembering things. Either we're missing something, or Whedon thought this out very poorly.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Or an escaped doll with all of the available personalities, memories, skills and abilities is suddenly throwing a wrench into previously well running machine.

 

[Plain Simple]

I don't know if anyone else noticed but that crooked handler was Kevin Kilner, a.k.a. William Boone, the lead from the 1st season of Earth: Final Conflict.

Of course I did. Good to see him again, too bad he was only needed to play the one time bad guy.

Considering this is a Whedon show (and this one was even written by Joss I believe?) I was expecting the neighbour to be killed off. After all, who ever heard of a happy relationship in a Whedon show? Well, there's still time for agony and death in Ballard's real life fantasy I guess. Especially with the neighbour being a doll and all.

Joss' desire to see tiny women beat up huge men overrides that.

Good thing for Hurley then that Joss is not a writer on Lost.

 

[Plain Simple]

Or an escaped doll with all of the available personalities, memories, skills and abilities is suddenly throwing a wrench into previously well running machine.

I seem to remember that the reporter in the beginning of the episode mentioned that rumours about a Dollhouse in LA were around since the late 80s, which would suggest that things have been up and running (quite smoothly one might assume) for 20 years. Why things suddenly start breaking down is a good question and one that hopefully gets addressed at some point (if we get there).

 

[tharpdevenport]

I don't know if anyone else noticed but that crooked handler was Kevin Kilner, a.k.a. William Boone, the lead from the 1st season of Earth: Final Conflict.

Of course I did. Good to see him again, too bad he was only needed to play the one time bad guy.

Considering this is a Whedon show (and this one was even written by Joss I believe?) I was expecting the neighbour to be killed off. After all, who ever heard of a happy relationship in a Whedon show? Well, there's still time for agony and death in Ballard's real life fantasy I guess. Especially with the neighbour being a doll and all.

Joss' desire to see tiny women beat up huge men overrides that.

Good thing for Hurley then that Joss is not a writer on Lost.

That's not me you are quoting.

 

[Hermiod]

That was a good episode. Though Helo angrily beating the snot out of the poor girl he's trying to save was very disturbing, particularly since this isn't Buffy where the girls are superheroines. Between that and Boone raping Sierra and almost raping/killing neighbor girl... overload. At first I was assuming that Echo's "confession" to Helo was just a cover story from the Dollhouse to make him drop the story, that it was all bull. But then at the end evil security guy mentioned there ARE other Dollhouses around the world like Echo said! So I guess she was telling the truth. I'm assuming the mole is the Asian girl who assists Topher. And hey, Patton Oswald!

Echo picked that fight and she pulled a gun on him, he has a right to defend himself. You can't have it both ways, either Echo's programming can somehow overcome the fact that she's still at least a foot shorter and that Helo's hands are the size of her head or it can't.

The Actives seem to gain superhuman strength just from mental programming, that's the worst aspect of this show. I could believe that Echo could be programmed with skills suitable for any situation, but none of this should affect how strong they are. An Active still has the same bones and muscles that break just as easily.

You can put some of this down to training, but Helo has clearly demonstrated that he's exceptionally skilled in hand-to-hand combat.

As it stands, this is the ridiculous Battlestar Galactica boxing scenes all over again. No, actually, it's worse - Echo is turning in to Lana in Smallville.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Hermy, Get over it. It's a conceit of these shows, we all know it's not realistic, we all know that it's unevenly matched, but it's not like it's not been a part of the action genre for a long time now.
I am with you on the she started it and was out to kill him, so he had every right to fight back.

 

[Hermiod]

Hermy, Get over it. It's a conceit of these shows, we all know it's not realistic, we all know that it's unevenly matched, but it's not like it's not been a part of the action genre for a long time now.

It's showing up a fundamental flaw in the premise of the show and turning Echo in to a Mary Sue. That's a bigger problem than her beating up Helo.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Hermy, Get over it. It's a conceit of these shows, we all know it's not realistic, we all know that it's unevenly matched, but it's not like it's not been a part of the action genre for a long time now.

It's showing up a fundamental flaw in the premise of the show.

And it's a fantasy show, it's not meant to be realistic. If it was then none of it would be possible in the first place.

 

[Hermiod]

And it's a fantasy show, it's not meant to be realistic. If it was then none of it would be possible in the first place.

So is Smallville and a million other shows. I find characters who are too perfect to be unlikeable.

To be interesting, a character has to fail sometimes. Buffy failed, Angel failed, Mal Reynolds failed, so far Echo hasn't genuinely failed. You have to establish your villain as a direct threat to your hero otherwise the audience can't take them seriously.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

And it's a fantasy show, it's not meant to be realistic. If it was then none of it would be possible in the first place.

So is Smallville and a million other shows. I find characters who are too perfect to be unlikeable.

To be interesting, a character has to fail sometimes. Buffy failed, Angel failed, Mal Reynolds failed, so far Echo hasn't genuinely failed. You have to establish your villain as a direct threat to your hero otherwise the audience can't take them seriously.

And what has that got to do with Echo beating up/taking a beating from Ballard? And in this scenario which one is the villain?
Is it Echo we're supposed to be rooting for? Or Ballard? Because Ballard seems to fail, Echo on the other hand, well it's her role to be the perfect fantasy figure/the thing that's needed, she hasn't failed because she's programmed to be exactly that. What exactly could she be a failure at at this point?

 

[Hermiod]

And what has that got to do with Echo beating up/taking a beating from Ballard? And in this scenario which one is the villain?
Is it Echo we're supposed to be rooting for? Or Ballard? Because Ballard seems to fail, Echo on the other hand, well it's her role to be the perfect fantasy figure/the thing that's needed, she hasn't failed because she's programmed to be exactly that. What exactly could she be a failure at at this point?

If we're actually presenting Ballard as the hero of this show and not Echo that would work, but he isn't.

She saved the little girl, she protected the singer, she escaped from the hunter, she got the people out of the cult compound and she escaped from the police with the art she was sent to steal. It's not heroism if you can't possibly lose.

I will happily put this down to Fox wanting the show to be episodic to begin with, if that's the case, and we'll see what happens when Alpha shows up for real.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

No, "she" didn't save any of those people. If anyone is going to get credit for those going off properly, it's Topher, and possibly Boyd. Echo is just a tape recorder playing back a recording.

If we're rooting for Echo as the main protaganist, the person we're rooting for is the person who was painting the picture of the house, and had a vague understanding that something important had been left unfinished. We're rooting for Sierra and Victor sitting and looking at a picture book together. When Topher points out, this is the fundamental "herd" we're seeing, what we're seeing is the fully deconstructed humanity emerging, we're seeing human beings reborn and emerging as unique personalities. We're rooting for 3 year olds.

Whether Echo or Ballard is the "hero" in this show isn't clear yet. There may be no hero. The dolls are the protagonists, they are the only fundamentally innocent characters on the show. They are all broken, and they are all children, and that pulls our sympathy, we want them to emerge and we want to see them grow.

This is the most clever hook of the show. If the dolls were truly wiped after each mission, there's nothing here to see. It's just a '70's action show with standalone episodes that mean nothing. The fact that there is some continuity with these creatures, and we are seeing them emerge from the most basic of existences is what makes this a storyline.

 

[Mr Light]

My problem wasn't that they were fighting so violently, but the angry look on Helo's face like he was enjoying it or truly wanted to beat the crap out of her. I would have preferred if he was like "no! don't do this! I'm here to rescue you! I've been looking for you! You're brainwashed! This isn't you!", etc.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

My problem wasn't that they were fighting so violently, but the angry look on Helo's face like he was enjoying it or truly wanted to beat the crap out of her. I would have preferred if he was like "no! don't do this! I'm here to rescue you! I've been looking for you! You're brainwashed! This isn't you!", etc.

You're going to stand there and try to explain the whole situation to her while she beats the crap out of you? I can't say I would remain calm and collected while getting the shit kicked out of me. I'd probably turn angry and violent within the first few shots too.

 

[Forbin]

No, I'm with Mr Light - Helo, given how obsessed he's been with finding her, should have been trying to get thru to her while defending himself. No reason he can't keep blocking her attack while yelling things like "Caroline! What the hell? I've been trying to save you!"

 

[Bob The Skutter]

No, I'm with Mr Light - Helo, given how obsessed he's been with finding her, should have been trying to get thru to her while defending himself. No reason he can't keep blocking her attack while yelling things like "Caroline! What the hell? I've been trying to save you!"

Thing is, he doesn't actually know her, and he knows what the dolls can be programmed to do. She could be trying to kill him for all he knows. And if you don't lose your temper when you're getting punched and kicked, especially when already wounded, when do you lose it?

 

[witchie]

Ballard doesn't know Caroline. He's created some image of her from the video. When he meets Rebecca, she's a docile housewife. We know this isn't her real personality either. Ballard already tried to get through to Caroline. She didn't even react when he was talking to her. Echo was programmed to fight him, to the death, if necessary. I would have rolled my eyes if the fight consisted of him ducking pots while imploring her to remember who she was. I'm sorry, but that would have been unbelievable to me.

Echo's mission was to set him up to lose his job. And she did that. She fought him until the police arrived and shot the cop. If the fight hadn't gone on as long as it did, her handler would have been suspicious, putting Echo at risk. I don't blame Ballard for fighting back. Is he supposed to stand by as this trained fighter attempts to hurt him? Please. I don't see anyone complaining about Mellie's fight. She was thrown all over the apartment. She's not a tiny woman. Yet, once she was activated, she was able to kill. There are females who are trained fighters, who can take on men. I'll also go one further and say the programming surpresses their pain receptors, so they can keep going through their injuries.

I loved the fight. Very reminiscent of Buffy.

ETA: Oh, and my vote for the insider is Topher's assistant. She's too cute, too adorable. Definitely could fly under the radar.

 

[Plain Simple]

That's not me you are quoting.

Sorry for that. I must have deleted the wrong quote-code. I edited my post.

 

[FPAlpha]

My husband does porn!

This alone made it clear it's a Whedon show

Anyway.. best episode to date (in fact.. the only good episode so far.. the others ranged from meh to i don't really care). Finally the curtain is pulled back and we see a little more of the Dollhouse world and i'm curious to see more.

I was afraid it would remain the "Doll of the Week" type show but this kicked into high gear. I had multiple WTF moments (loved the remote activation of the neighbor) and this rarely happens.

I loved the fight. Very reminiscent of Buffy.

Way better fights than most of Buffy.. Buffy had a very choreographed feel to it but these are more realistic. Shows that Penikett has been training martial arts for years.. he knows how to move instead of an on set instructor telling you what to do.