Does Voyager get worse with subsequent viewings?
- Thread starter crouteru
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Subsequent viewings of VOY haven't made the show any better or worse, necessarily. When watching the series in its first run on UPN, I had no idea what was going to happen week-to-week. Granted, I was usually underwhelmed or disappointed with the show's formulaic writing (special anomalies or forehead-aliens-of-the-week, too much technobabble, inconsistencies) back then, and still am to this day. It's really easy to pick that stuff out in the repeats.
I'd say one thing that's changed for me is that if I catch an episode or two on TV and pay attention, I see all these great little character moments or bits of dialogue that I really like. And I think to myself "that could be good stuff - I hope they expand on that!". Then I realize that I've seen the entire series, and the writers never bother to take advantage of some really good opportunities. There was just SO MUCH untapped potential in this show, and that just makes me sad. This could have been a great show but in the end, it was just mediocre.
I'd say one thing that's changed for me is that if I catch an episode or two on TV and pay attention, I see all these great little character moments or bits of dialogue that I really like. And I think to myself "that could be good stuff - I hope they expand on that!". Then I realize that I've seen the entire series, and the writers never bother to take advantage of some really good opportunities. There was just SO MUCH untapped potential in this show, and that just makes me sad. This could have been a great show but in the end, it was just mediocre.
Only the sixth season. For some reason, the more I see of this season, the less I like it. Otherwise it remains the same as when I first saw it, (unlike TNG and Enterprise which improve with watching.) The higher quality of the earlier seasons does stand out more though.
Funny I found Season Two to be more like Season Six, with Season Four and Five being best seasons - I find Seasons One and Five to be rather underrated, if you look at the poles and common opinion.
^I'd agree with that except for the Season 2 bit. I liked Season two, I think it was mainly to do with the over-bridging arc and the fact that it had a stronger recurring cast which made Voyager feel more like a real place. I also feel the stories were better written earlier on. Season 4 is the best season though without any doubt.
Several months ago I watched DS9 and very recently watched TNG from beginning to end and enjoyed them so much and have a greater appreciation for them now than I did before.
I have started Voyager season 1 and I think it has the best pilot episode of all the Star Trek shows but like all, the 1st season is the weakest but also the memory of the later seasons are still quite fresh so while I will enjoy the trip of re-watching 7 seasons, I think VOYAGER will stick out as a weak link compared to TNG, DS9 and even ENT, which I loved for seasons 3 & 4.
I have started Voyager season 1 and I think it has the best pilot episode of all the Star Trek shows but like all, the 1st season is the weakest but also the memory of the later seasons are still quite fresh so while I will enjoy the trip of re-watching 7 seasons, I think VOYAGER will stick out as a weak link compared to TNG, DS9 and even ENT, which I loved for seasons 3 & 4.
I wouldn't say it gets worse but you can definitely see its age, somewhat like TNG. I think the biggest issue Voyager has is its tone (especially later in its life) which I don't think is compatible with the general sentiment of its current viewers.
There is an argument to be made that we live in a far more cynical and shadowed society as far as sentiment and outlook goes. That at least was one of the arguments for the success of The Dark Knight's pitch black storyline. It's also the same reason that the bubble-gum storylines from 50s and 60s shows (like TOS) find it hard to echo with today's audiences.
As a veteran fan, I still love VOY and all its intricacies. Don't know how much of a draw to new fans it will be though.
There is an argument to be made that we live in a far more cynical and shadowed society as far as sentiment and outlook goes. That at least was one of the arguments for the success of The Dark Knight's pitch black storyline. It's also the same reason that the bubble-gum storylines from 50s and 60s shows (like TOS) find it hard to echo with today's audiences.
As a veteran fan, I still love VOY and all its intricacies. Don't know how much of a draw to new fans it will be though.
It's also probably a reason why the new Battlestar Galactica strikes a chord now too. The original Roddenberry vision was that humanity had evolved. If you don't buy that premise then watching any of the Trek shows is going to be difficult.
Personally I'd have liked to see some sort of balance. Sure humanity can evolve but that doesn't necessarily mean the ship will automagically repair itself each week.
^^
One of many reasons why I like Trek is because of the optimistic view of the future.
That's also one of the reasons I can't stand some of the current shows, like Battlestar Galactica. It's simply too much of the whining pessimism which I'm confronted with in my daily life.
If I want to watch something like that, I can simply watch the news or go to a funeral.
What we do need today is new ideas and visions to make the society move forward again. Star Trek do at least have such a vision.
One of many reasons why I like Trek is because of the optimistic view of the future.
That's also one of the reasons I can't stand some of the current shows, like Battlestar Galactica. It's simply too much of the whining pessimism which I'm confronted with in my daily life.
If I want to watch something like that, I can simply watch the news or go to a funeral.
What we do need today is new ideas and visions to make the society move forward again. Star Trek do at least have such a vision.
The pristine ship thing used to (mildly) bug me, too, until someone pointed out that replicator technology is a basic staple of the Trek universe. Therefore it stands to reason they'd be able to make almost anything required to repair Voyager. Of course, that doesn't explain the endless supply of warp cores for all those shuttles, but no matter.Sure humanity can evolve but that doesn't necessarily mean the ship will automagically repair itself each week.
As I've said before, I don't require absolute realism in a TV show. And if the alternative is a show populated by some of the most boring characters I've ever tried to watch (namely, nBSG), I'll stick to Voyager.
Precisely. I watched "Living Witness" today, it's still an excellent episode of Star Trek. Honestly, it's been years since I've watched most of the Voyager episodes I didn't like.
I started out watching Star Trek: Voyager with all the exuberance and hunger of a child who wanted to see more Star Trek after having grown up on TNG & DS9 till that point.
I remember sitting in front of my Television the night the pilot premiered. (The only pilot I ever saw in its intitial airing) and remember being so excited as the episode began.
Then I remember getting really bored as the Caretaker stuff happened and wondering why no one was overly upset that so many of the crew had just died. I figured it was just a fluke and the show would get better over time.
In a way, I was wrong. The show never really lived up to it's premise and tended to skirt the fact that logically they should have been damaged nearly all the time. It didn't do a good job of explaining where they got things in story, it just said, well we picked these up and so... Alien Spacedock repairs, or New Photon Torpedoes, or Warp 10 Crystals.
Logistical developments never really unfolded during the show, that affected their situation very often unless it was showing a means of getting home they ended up never exploiting in order to retain their StarFleet ideals. Which was fine, but then again gets old after the 5th or 6th time it happens.
Character moments tended to be done a little better, but only a few of the main characters ever got to keep their Character's Development going over the long haul.
The Doctor of course was my favorite character and I enjoyed Robert Picardo's ability to make me laugh & cry within the same episode. Voyager never really did humor very well. ("Get this cheese to sickbay") Of course I guess this could be said of any Star Trek depending on where you decided to look. (TNGs early episodes all ended with a laugh it seems.)
Seven was okay too when they introduced her, but her development was paired with the Doctors so it's kind of hard to separate them. (Plus you have to remember that she was taking over for Kes's development as well.)
Anyways, first time through I still watched about every episode every week despite never really falling in love with the show, probably out of some weird loyalty aspect of being a Star Trek Fan. It's hard to fathom NOW at the ripe old age of 25 as I'm a lot more discerning in my tastes of what I'll watch, that I managed to make it through all 7 seasons the first time feeling the way I did about it. But I did, and never really cared for it in the long run. Kind of an acknowledged black-sheep of the family you tried to not talk about but couldn't really ignore out and out.
FLASH FORWARD to a few years ago:
I had a friend loan me the entire Star Trek: Voyager series and I had some free time, so I thought I'd rewatch it speed style just to make sure that I'd seen all the episodes at least once (again that Fan Mentality and more than a bit of my own personality to boot at work no doubt.) and just to make sure I hadn't forgotten the few good parts of the show I could remember.
I'd been getting into the literary side of Star Trek for a few years at that point and also wanted to refresh a lot of the background information I had about Voyager to enhance my enjoyment of the books when tend to be MUCH MUCH MUCH better than on screen trek at it's peak.
Needless to say I watched all 7 seasons in about 2 weeks. It was the summer, I was out of school for the summer, and my university job didn't take up very much of my time at all.
My reaction this time was one of slight (and I reiterate slight) amazement. I still had my disappointments in what they never expanded upon from the show's underlying premise, BUT despite this, knowing where the show was going, I was able to follow their direction a little easier without worrying about why they weren't doing this instead. In a way I guess I was just going along with it, whereas before I was hoping for something every week that I never got and was always let down because of.
In watching it so fast this time through, the smaller shall I say subtler character aspects of people like Tom Paris & Neelix really started to shine through.
It never really showed through at the time, but Neelix was a rouge who was used to being on his guard and playing nice with people to not make waves. He stayed happy and cheerful as a sort of veneer to prevent getting thrown off the ship at first. What I originally saw as sucking up and being timid, was really trying to show off his usefulness while keeping his head down. It worked, he got what he wanted, but at the same time he also found a new family (which he wasn't really expecting when he and Kes first came aboard) He'd just been using Voyager to get out and away from the Kazons and then he actually cared enough to stick around and open himself up emotionally, something he hadn't done in a long time.
I still wish they'd played up his rouge side more than they did, there was so much untapped potential there but again, I had a new look at the character and appreciated him more because of it.
In regards to Tom, he was good at his job, but he didn't agree with a lot of how things were done mostly because of his relationship with his father and his associating StarFleet with him. Over time, Tom grew into a respectable officer with the experiences of a rouge to fall back on when necessary. He was the one sent on the secret missions, he was the one who did what he thought was right even above the orders of a superior in holding up the ideals in which he believed. He was a mentor to Harry but only after Harry proved himself as a person and not just another cog in the StarFleet machine. He gave him a glimpse into a way of looking at things he'd earned the hard way thereby giving Harry the benefit of his experiences without having to go through all the troubles he'd had to as well.
Other characters popped a bit more this time around, and maybe it was just me reading into the subtleties of the actors performances and looking behind the dialogue to find what was there. But I enjoyed Star Trek: Voyager more the second time through.
Now, it will never be my favorite Star Trek series. Deep Space Nine just holds to much nostalgia for me, not to mention great character performances as well as excellent characterizations for that to ever occur. But I'm more willing to accept it as a member of the family than I would of been in the past.
I still don't really care for Katheryn Janeway though. I doubt that will ever change.
I remember sitting in front of my Television the night the pilot premiered. (The only pilot I ever saw in its intitial airing) and remember being so excited as the episode began.
Then I remember getting really bored as the Caretaker stuff happened and wondering why no one was overly upset that so many of the crew had just died. I figured it was just a fluke and the show would get better over time.
In a way, I was wrong. The show never really lived up to it's premise and tended to skirt the fact that logically they should have been damaged nearly all the time. It didn't do a good job of explaining where they got things in story, it just said, well we picked these up and so... Alien Spacedock repairs, or New Photon Torpedoes, or Warp 10 Crystals.
Logistical developments never really unfolded during the show, that affected their situation very often unless it was showing a means of getting home they ended up never exploiting in order to retain their StarFleet ideals. Which was fine, but then again gets old after the 5th or 6th time it happens.
Character moments tended to be done a little better, but only a few of the main characters ever got to keep their Character's Development going over the long haul.
The Doctor of course was my favorite character and I enjoyed Robert Picardo's ability to make me laugh & cry within the same episode. Voyager never really did humor very well. ("Get this cheese to sickbay") Of course I guess this could be said of any Star Trek depending on where you decided to look. (TNGs early episodes all ended with a laugh it seems.)
Seven was okay too when they introduced her, but her development was paired with the Doctors so it's kind of hard to separate them. (Plus you have to remember that she was taking over for Kes's development as well.)
Anyways, first time through I still watched about every episode every week despite never really falling in love with the show, probably out of some weird loyalty aspect of being a Star Trek Fan. It's hard to fathom NOW at the ripe old age of 25 as I'm a lot more discerning in my tastes of what I'll watch, that I managed to make it through all 7 seasons the first time feeling the way I did about it. But I did, and never really cared for it in the long run. Kind of an acknowledged black-sheep of the family you tried to not talk about but couldn't really ignore out and out.
FLASH FORWARD to a few years ago:
I had a friend loan me the entire Star Trek: Voyager series and I had some free time, so I thought I'd rewatch it speed style just to make sure that I'd seen all the episodes at least once (again that Fan Mentality and more than a bit of my own personality to boot at work no doubt.) and just to make sure I hadn't forgotten the few good parts of the show I could remember.
I'd been getting into the literary side of Star Trek for a few years at that point and also wanted to refresh a lot of the background information I had about Voyager to enhance my enjoyment of the books when tend to be MUCH MUCH MUCH better than on screen trek at it's peak.
Needless to say I watched all 7 seasons in about 2 weeks. It was the summer, I was out of school for the summer, and my university job didn't take up very much of my time at all.
My reaction this time was one of slight (and I reiterate slight) amazement. I still had my disappointments in what they never expanded upon from the show's underlying premise, BUT despite this, knowing where the show was going, I was able to follow their direction a little easier without worrying about why they weren't doing this instead. In a way I guess I was just going along with it, whereas before I was hoping for something every week that I never got and was always let down because of.
In watching it so fast this time through, the smaller shall I say subtler character aspects of people like Tom Paris & Neelix really started to shine through.
It never really showed through at the time, but Neelix was a rouge who was used to being on his guard and playing nice with people to not make waves. He stayed happy and cheerful as a sort of veneer to prevent getting thrown off the ship at first. What I originally saw as sucking up and being timid, was really trying to show off his usefulness while keeping his head down. It worked, he got what he wanted, but at the same time he also found a new family (which he wasn't really expecting when he and Kes first came aboard) He'd just been using Voyager to get out and away from the Kazons and then he actually cared enough to stick around and open himself up emotionally, something he hadn't done in a long time.
I still wish they'd played up his rouge side more than they did, there was so much untapped potential there but again, I had a new look at the character and appreciated him more because of it.
In regards to Tom, he was good at his job, but he didn't agree with a lot of how things were done mostly because of his relationship with his father and his associating StarFleet with him. Over time, Tom grew into a respectable officer with the experiences of a rouge to fall back on when necessary. He was the one sent on the secret missions, he was the one who did what he thought was right even above the orders of a superior in holding up the ideals in which he believed. He was a mentor to Harry but only after Harry proved himself as a person and not just another cog in the StarFleet machine. He gave him a glimpse into a way of looking at things he'd earned the hard way thereby giving Harry the benefit of his experiences without having to go through all the troubles he'd had to as well.
Other characters popped a bit more this time around, and maybe it was just me reading into the subtleties of the actors performances and looking behind the dialogue to find what was there. But I enjoyed Star Trek: Voyager more the second time through.
Now, it will never be my favorite Star Trek series. Deep Space Nine just holds to much nostalgia for me, not to mention great character performances as well as excellent characterizations for that to ever occur. But I'm more willing to accept it as a member of the family than I would of been in the past.
I still don't really care for Katheryn Janeway though. I doubt that will ever change.
im starting to re watch the series with my friend from the begining its cool to look back at things and go ahhh i see the connection
like the first time B'Ellanna and harry were calling each other starfleet and Maquis or really just anything
also funny to look at like the original Chief Medical Officer and the first officer and going your gonna die REALLY SOON
plus i watched a few episodes of season 5 today to make a better choice for the hurt/heal
D A N N Y
like the first time B'Ellanna and harry were calling each other starfleet and Maquis or really just anything
also funny to look at like the original Chief Medical Officer and the first officer and going your gonna die REALLY SOON
plus i watched a few episodes of season 5 today to make a better choice for the hurt/heal
D A N N Y
It's also probably a reason why the new Battlestar Galactica strikes a chord now too. The original Roddenberry vision was that humanity had evolved. If you don't buy that premise then watching any of the Trek shows is going to be difficult.
Personally I'd have liked to see some sort of balance. Sure humanity can evolve but that doesn't necessarily mean the ship will automagically repair itself each week.
Agreed on both points (huge battlestar fan here
).I believe the primary issue is that things were so damned rosy for so long with Trek. 500 years of absolutely peace and prosperity? It tests our suspension of disbelief somewhat. I think in the past we could put it behind us but it's harder now.
As for what Lynx said about pessimism (oh hi btw, glad to see at least one name I still recognize here), I think sometimes Battlestar is a little overly pessimistic also I'm going to be honest, I didn't enjoy the Dark Knight....no no don't hurt me please. But, I think at the end of the day it's about what the viewer can identify with. I agree, having pessimistic storylines that end in tears are a little awful but I like seeing folks overcoming them. It gives you a sense that you can do the same in your life. That's why they are so prevalent and successful in TV today.
I think it stands up pretty well. The way Janeway half whispers everything annoys the hell out of me as do the techno babble solutions Janeway and Torres dream up.
Janeway: "If we re-route the plasma through the..."
Torres: "...Flange distributor...."
Janeway: "...and then rub our tummy's while patting our heads..."
Torres: "The resulting explosion will blow us free"
Twisted is an example of Trek at its best too.
Janeway: "If we re-route the plasma through the..."
Torres: "...Flange distributor...."
Janeway: "...and then rub our tummy's while patting our heads..."
Torres: "The resulting explosion will blow us free"
Twisted is an example of Trek at its best too.
