Does this series seem more mature and grittier than the other series?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by SailorLadyGaga, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. XCV330

    XCV330 Fleet Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Location:
    L5
    When I learn what mature means, I'll reply to that.

    In terms of content and subject matter, its grit is on part with DS9. We haven't seen Starfleet officers walking around with necklaces made from trophies cut from their enemies' bodies, DS9 still has that. It has had allusion to prison rape so it's about on par with other Trek shows that have done rape, ghost-rape, mind-meld rape, etc. Insane brilliant captain possibly in over his head, wait that's been done so many times its a trope, only this time he's a wonderfully written character. And let's see, a character who went through loss in war, torturous pain and then weeks trying to recover mentally hiding away among humans.. wait.. holy crap.. Voq is Nog!

    Id say right now Discovery is on par with DS9 for grit, if they were both sandpaper.
     
  2. Rahul

    Rahul Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Grittier?
    Absolutely. No Star Trek series has ever had that level of gore in it. We saw close-ups of kills/mutilated corpses every single episode (save the premiere two-parter).

    More mature?
    Absolutely not. DIS is surprisingly pulpy for how serious it takes itself.
    DS9 had a way more sober way of portraying war, TNG is miles ahead in social commentary, TOS in character dynamics, and VOY in portraying female authority figures.

    Does it have the potential to become more mature?
    Yes. Once they find a consistent tone and ditch their overly campy liabilities (the klingon war arc in particular, the general tropiness of everything in general). And it's quite surprising how nuanced Treks first homosexual relationship has been portrayed so far. Good job there. The seeds for greatness are clearly visible, and the show IMO clearly succeeds in character portrayal. If the rest of the show can follow? Sure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
    jaime and Lord Garth like this.
  3. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    Dahar Master final exams
    Grittier and less family-friendly, yes.

    However, it would need a somewhat higher level of storytelling depth and complexity before I describe it as truly "mature."

    Kor
     
    Rahul likes this.
  4. seigezunt

    seigezunt Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Location:
    Delta Vega
    Less G-rated, definitely, and that's an improvement. More mature? Eh, it seems pretty much in line with the franchise in that regard. Gritty? Not really. But more violent in some respects.
     
  5. Spot261

    Spot261 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Location:
    uk - Spot261
    I'm not personally sold on the idea trek has ever really been family friendly, it's hard to watch TOS and find many episodes that didn't involve significant sex and/or violence, murder, torture or executions. Likewise so far nothing in DSC (including CYP) has remotely compared to the impact of Picard being tortured in "Chains of Command" for me personally. Likewise "The Siege of AR558" still feels a far more genuine and harrowing portrayal of the horrors of war than BotBS.

    I think the dark visual aesthetic and lack of humour is tending to bring those aspects to the forefront in ways that were moderated by the campier, more colourful tone of TOS or the ethical focus and seemingly perfect characterisations of TNG. Nonetheless sex, violence and the consequences of conflict have always figured heavily in (crucially) the best trek and whilst this show has its' shortcomings I don't fully accept it's genuinely treading new ground in terms of adult content.
     
    seigezunt likes this.
  6. Uhura's Song

    Uhura's Song Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2017
    Grittier? Yes. More mature? No. Absent the R rated content, of course.

    I think some on here don't really understand what mature means. I mean, it has been more graphic (language, gore, nudity), but I don't think the stories are any more mature at all. In fact, I think the stories have been a tad less developed in terms of exploring ethical/moral aspects of humanity because of the war footing. Win at all costs.

    When issues have come up, they have been pretty telegraphed (Tardigrade, Stamets).

    I will say the crew has more shades of gray than previous Trek. They crew has always been good/by the book baring alien takeover or strange circumstance.

    However, I think before the grey had to come from the story. Now, with it coming from the crew, the story is a bit more straightforward & less developed.
     
    Spot261 likes this.
  7. Wadjda

    Wadjda Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Discoveryes lows as social commentary will not be as hamfisted as TNG.
     
    Spot261 and Crazy Eddie like this.
  8. Long Syntax

    Long Syntax Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2015
    Location:
    USA
    Yes, both grittier and more mature - not that either makes it more or less watchable for me. Things like Klingon boobies and more graphic depictions of rape could (and rightly so) make it less appropriate for family consumption though, which is somewhat of a disappointment. But hey - I'm still watching it.
     
  9. Rahul

    Rahul Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    What?
     
  10. lab rat

    lab rat Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    As an example of the above I would like to offer as an example the stories of the Horta in TOS and Tin Man in TNG. Looking back at these the treatment of the alien was a little more complex than the story of Ripper which came across as caged animal -> set it Free! More of a classic Disney kids movie.
     
  11. Vger23

    Vger23 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    New England
    I'm sorry, but most TNG-era shows have the subtlety and maturity of a science-fiction version of an After School Special. That's not to say that they aren't fun and entertaining in their own way. It's just bogus to say they are "mature." Because they aint.

    Discovery, on its character complexity alone, has that edge.
     
    Feron and Wadjda like this.
  12. RedAlert

    RedAlert Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    Location:
    Chile
    I feel overwhelmed with the excess of things to assimilate on every chapter.
    Too much cream for this cake.
    I miss the old and simple Trek... but I can live with that.
     
  13. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    I called last night's episode filling and I meant that in a good way. There was just a lot to take in and think about. I still think the idea of maturity is only used to bash something in this context which is why I don't think this series is more mature than the others.
     
  14. Prax

    Prax Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Middle West
    What do you mean?
     
  15. Blamo

    Blamo Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    The show is grittier than most past Trek simply because most past Trek was bad at character drama and generally looked for easy ways out (DS9 and even TOS excluded).

    Certainly not in comparison to DS9 or TOS, but compared to TNG it's has slightly more attempts at humour (with the benefit of the jokes actually being funny).
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
    Feron likes this.
  16. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    In the past I've seen people use the idea of maturity to talk negatively about a series but I think in this context it doesn't work well.

    If we're only talking about discovery, it's probably mature for Discovery. I don't really know what that means though.
     
  17. Gul Sengosts

    Gul Sengosts Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Hm, in terms of humour I rank TNG highest actually (and DSC lowest)
     
  18. Refuge

    Refuge Rear Admiral Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Location:
    Sonderfall
    Reflection. It is grittier - Lorca in a torture booth. Mature? Only if Trek caricatures doing the dumbest things is considered mature. It's almost like a dark unintentional comedy.
     
    Wowbagger likes this.
  19. johnjm22

    johnjm22 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Location:
    California
    I think the show is very immature and cornball. That's part of the problem with it. The writing is on par with a Saturday morning children's action cartoon.

    It's probably the "grittiest" Trek show however in terms of violence and visuals.
     
    Wowbagger likes this.
  20. Prax

    Prax Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Middle West
    It's all in the music