Does It Get Better???

[Gotham Central]

It's pretty damning that other shows can get away with similar arcs without anyone batting an eyelash:

1) In NuBSG no one cares that the Cylons kept showing up even though Galactica's method of FTL put even more distance between them and the Cylons than VOY's Warp Drive did for them and the Kazon.

2) In Farscape no one cares the Peacekeepers kept showing up.

But in VOY, if ANY aliens species showed up more than once of twice there was Hell to pay.

This is another one of those ANWAR misses a key point of the plot comments

On both Farscape and BSG the Cylons and the Peacekeepers were FOLLOWING the protagonists. The Cylons were actively hunting down the Galactica...that was you know, THE POINT. Similarly, the whole point of Farscape was that the crew of Moya were WANTED.

At no point on Voyager was it ever stated that the Kazon were following the ship. Had the done so and given a valid reason for that no one would complain.

 

[RoJoHen]

At no point on Voyager was it ever stated that the Kazon were following the ship. Had the done so and given a valid reason for that no one would complain.

Spoiler: The Kazon

It was pretty heavily implied that Seska and her Kazon ship were following Voyager. Seska was determined to take control of the Starfleet technology in an attempt to give her more power in the Delta Quadrant.

That's why, after Seska died, we never heard from the Kazon again.

Plus, the Kazon were fairly nomadic, stealing technology from other races in order to survive, without a central infrastructure. It's not a stretch to say that they'd be spread out across a vast area of space.

 

[exodus]

^^
Yep, exactly.
I remember her saying she wanted to take Voyager to get home faster and it was the best place to raise her baby? So isn't that implying they were following Voyager for a reason?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Voyager had to go around all the occupied space controlled by bastards with stern looking customs and excises, looking for neutral, open and shitty unclaimed space where they let their freak flag fly rocking out with their cock out... So no wonder she was always sniffing kazon but.

 

[DonIago]

You guys are throwing out spoilers again...

 

[RoJoHen]

You guys are throwing out spoilers again...

Fixed my post! I forgot where I was.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

Going back to Tuvix, I really liked the way the writers presented the situation. They didn't make one side of the argument look more "right" than the other. On one hand we had Janeway and the crew, who we were supposed to like and care about, executing Tuvix in order to save the lives of their friends. And, on the other hand we had Tuvix, an innocent lifeform who did not deserve to die, and who I felt genuinely sorry for when he did. They really left it up to the viewers to decide for themselves who they supported, rather than being extremely preachy like TNG very often was.

 

[tighr]

Regarding the Kazon and their [unspecified length greater than S02E24 but less than S07E26] story arc, I really feel that if Voyager is "rebooted" at some point in the future that the writer's will learn their lesson and fix the glitch. There is no way the Kazon should have been able to control that much space, and even less of a way for all the Mages to get together in Alliances! It would have taken some of those Mages years to get to the conference.

NuBSG ended up really good because they learned their lessons from the original BSG.

Oh, and for the record, I hope nobody reboots Voyager.

And, for the OP, it gets better, hang on. I'll keep this spoiler-free, so enjoy the ride!

 

[You_Will_Fail]

Tighr, you just gave out a spoiler regarding how long the Kazon arc is!

And I'm really enjoying this thread AdmiralScreed, thanks for keeping us updated!

 

[DonIago]

Yeah, as much as I admittedly find some of the ongoing debate regarding Tuvix tedious, it certainly demonstrates how good an episode it was.

 

[tighr]

Tighr, you just gave out a spoiler regarding how long the Kazon arc is!

Ooh, yeah. I guess that is kinda spoilerish. Updated my original post.

OP: The Kazon Story arc ends sometime after the events of Tuvix but sometime before the end of the series.

 

[RoJoHen]

The Kazon arc will never end...as long as we remember it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Wow that's the worst motivation for a serial killer ever.

Destroying the last stored memories of the Kazon from Human memory.

Of course that would only be possible after detonating several large nuclear weapons across the globe to destroy all analogue and digital evidence of the Kazon.

Then there's the book burning of course.

but after you've inverted the magnetoshepre, made a bonfire of all the encyclopaedia and fanzines, then, only then you can hunt down the trekkies in the cursed wasteland and save the future of humanity from knowing what a Kazon is.

Who says that it's bad thing to be driven by faith towards a deeper calling?

 

[You_Will_Fail]

You do crack me up!

 

[AdmiralScreed]

And I'm really enjoying this thread AdmiralScreed, thanks for keeping us updated!

Thank you and everyone else for coming to this thread and joining in the discussion. It's a lot of fun to hear other people's ideas and opinions.

Also, it'll be a couple of nights until I get back to watching Voyager because I got a few blu ray movies for Christmas that I need to watch.

 

[Anwar]

At no point on Voyager was it ever stated that the Kazon were following the ship. Had the done so and given a valid reason for that no one would complain.

I doubt that; if they HAD said it out loud (and I think they did) then the answer would just be that the idea of any antagonist following the good guys would be dumb (but it's okay on NuBSG and Farscape).

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Kazon didn't have to "follow" Voyager.

They had an insideman.

Michael fricking Jonas.

 

[tighr]

I doubt that; if they HAD said it out loud (and I think they did) then the answer would just be that the idea of any antagonist following the good guys would be dumb (but it's okay on NuBSG and Farscape).

I think it was already mentioned earlier, but the Cylons weren't "following" Galactica, they were CHASING it. The whole point of the show is that the Cylons had a vested interest in destroying the colonists.

Galactica was trying to get away from the Cylons. Voyager didn't give a rat's ass about the Kazon, because she was clearly superior to them.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

I changed my mind and decided to watch Voyager instead of the blu rays I got for Christmas.

Resolutions: It was obvious from the beginning that they were going to find a cure for Janeway and Chakotay, so that made the rest of the episode rather predictable. I did like seeing Tuvok as the captain of Voyager, and I like the way he stood his ground against Kim and the rest of the crew. He really shouldn't have listened to them and contacted the Vidiians; from a story standpoint it was necessary because the show couldn't have gone on without Janeway and Chakotay, but if you look at the risk in contacting the Vidiians it was pretty damn stupid for Tuvok to rendezvous with them. I don't have much more to say about this one, other than it had its good moments.
5/10

Basics Part 1: Another excellent episode in the Kazon arc! This time around we see the crew of Voyager deceived by the Kazon and stranded on an alien planet. This episode had some really exciting plot twists, plenty of good action, a terrific cliffhanger, and also a few funny moments (the Doctor in space! ). I'm also happy that they revisited Suder. I was happy to see that he was making progress.
A very, very solid episode, and a terrific way to end season 2.
8/10

Basics Part 2: An extremely satisfying end to the Kazon arc, and a marvelous episode in its own right. This episode succeeded in every way possible. Seeing the Starfleet/Maquis officers make peace with the primitive tribe at the end was wonderful. The Doctor and Suder's sabotage of Voyager was exciting and Suder's death saving the ship was tragic. And on top of all that this was a very consequential episode; Seska died, Suder died, Voyager was retaken, and the Kazon arc came to a conclusion.
All in all, this is probably the best Star Trek season premiere I have ever watched, and it is at this point in time my favorite episode of Voyager.
10/10

I've gotta say, Voyager has REALLY improved. Right now I'm enjoying this show as much as I enjoyed TNG and DS9 when I first saw them.

 

[RoJoHen]

I really enjoy the Doctor/Suder/Voyager parts of "Basics," but I couldn't stand the planet-side stuff. Voyager crew vs. Caveman aliens? And then they become best friends because Chakotay saves a girl who is too afraid to step over a lava pit. Oh, and Hogan gets eaten by a giant slug monster! I liked Hogan. I was pissed they killed him off.

..although we haven't seen the last of him.