Does anyone think that Beyond was something of a missed opportunity?

What I was hoping for was something like a guy whose life has been ruined by the Federation and perhaps the Prime Directive and so he decides not to seek revenge but instead to show Kirk how flawed the Federation is.

There should have been a line to explain why she wasn't there. I was expecting something along the lines of McCoy mentioning her leaving due to her "condition" and Kirk looking guilty. However I do see Simon Pegg's reasoning that it would have been hard to find a place for her in the story.

 

In case it isn't apparent, Hollywood is terrified of offending an audience that they think won't come back.

I agree that Spock and Uhura should continue to be a couple, and that there shouldn't be any need to pull away from the relationship because "TOS." Otherwise, we'll end up with no female ship captains either, if that's the line that has to be toed..

I think the writers will always be self-conscious about Spock being in a relationship. It will feel like new ground with such an iconic character.

 

since one of the themes in the movie seems to be that spending all this time in space tested some of them, and made them wonder if their place was really starfleet (even if they really hinted at that only with Kirk and, secondarily, Spock if you want to think him also being 'tired' of space was one of the reasons why he started to question things he didn't question 3 years ago), perhaps it would be fitting if Carol was among the ones who actually realized that working on a spaceship is not for her and she decided to try a different career elsewhere. Since they won't recast Chekov ( Anton .. ) , they could justify his absense in a possible next movie in the same way..

Maybe ignoring Carol was one of the 'tos homages' since it's exactly what original trek 3 did?
jokes aside, I don't think this team HAD to absolutely include Carol (or any other character we see in x movie who is not part of the iconic crew) at any cost, but since the other team made her part of the crew at the end of stid, not even mentioning her character and what happened to her maybe contributed to make people feel like this movie ignored stid and what the other team did. And again, I don't think this idea did any good promoting this movie.
It seems like beyond them bringing up the alternate reality to justify gay Suly after Takei's objections, they shy away from the concept of this being an alternate reality and thus not a prequel of tos where the characters are, essentially, doomed to end up according to a set of rules created by tos.

which is what, in part, happened with star trek beyond. It's a bit apparent that they lost a part of the audience and critics that made the first movies more successful. The light switched off.

Making both old fans and reboot fans (who are both old trek fans who like these movies AND new people who didn't give trek the time of the day before but like these movies) happy is, perhaps, a mission impossible for any team but maybe it's not that impossible to find a balance and not make everything mutually exclusive.

and again, I don't think the fans of these movies and the people who like the new dynamics should deserve less consideration and respect than the fans of the old stuff. Honestly? the more I read their interviews the more I felt like they really didn't give a damn about the fans of these movies. They just wanted to please and 'win' haters.

a new ground whose way was already boldly paved by the other team 3 movies ago (not to mention the comics and novels), though.
and I mean, it's in the little things maybe but you have people who actually get the impression that in this movie they almost made a deliberate effort to not make him touch his girlfriend more than the dudes ^ I find the idea hilarious, but if they really did that it would be a tad pathetic, tbh.
It's true though that they toned their interactions down a bit when you compare this movie to the first two. Again, maybe it's really a coincidence but it seems they cut a kiss they were supposed to have in the ending scene (you can see it in the extra from the dvds) and a detail in their first interaction where he touched her hand holding the necklace (it's in one of the stills of that scene). LOL, I guess him touching her hand was too wild!
To think that the poor marketing people had use a different angle of her kissing his cheek to have a hint of romance and another kind of dynamic in the trailers ..^^"
Even when it comes to Uhura, while I appreciate the fact that the movie sort of makes Spock the one 'pining' more post break up, and the one focused on saving her in spite of his injury (also his admission in the end that he basically went to his friend's party only to spend time with her), they toned down her voice in the relationship in a way that seems to be, honestly, an once again 'pandering to haters' response to that side of the fandom that was concern trolling about the argument scene in stid and her being too 'defined by the relationship' (which ironically tends to be an argument made by people who want him and McCoy to be defined by bromance). Not allowing a woman to voice her feelings in a relationship is not feminist, it's just stupid and another way to sideline her and, once again, make it all about male characters bonding.

also, I get there is a certain level of.. how to call it? hypocrisy? among some trek fans who want Spock to be an asexual unemotional robot with his girlfriend.. but then the same people praise the (according to their own rules of 'how Spock should behave') actually way more 'out of character' scenes he has with the male characters in the name of bromance. Make Spock homicidal for the dudes, make him cry for the dudes, make him smile for the dudes, make him super emotional with the dudes, make him casually talk about his feels and personal stuff with dudes in a way that would make any vulcan cringe, but the moment he shows he cares about the woman he's in a relationship since 6 years 'ugh she's ruining Spock! He's too emotional! This is not my trek! Bye!'
and yet, that dynamic (unless he lied in interviews) was one of Nimoy's favorite things about new Spock. He was jealous
Ironically, if it weren't, perhaps, for his relationship with her (among other things possibly going differently), this Spock would be less open to friendship with the guys because he wouldn't have some of that balance and embracing of his human side that he now has. He maybe wouldn't, also, get the chance to truly understand that his feelings are, in fact, vulcan too (see his father admitting he loved Amanda). There are scenes I really can't imagine tos Spock having with either Kirk or Bones at that moment of his life. So really, some fans can't have it both ways .. but from my experience with some trek fans (not all, not even the majory perhaps. But a vocal side that is passed as the majority by non trek fans, unfortunately) that's what some want..
And I get being used to things being in a certain way. I get that the bromances being taken for granted and considered a given creates double standards, but after all these years and 3 movies I think some people got enough time to get used to new things and put things into perspective, and if they still don't they never will.

 

Given how Nimoy portrayed Spock as some one under constant control. He didn't feel because he made the conscious choice to not feel, a trait that has actually been expanded upon greatly in the Kelvin films.

I agree that it feels like a step backwards in terms of the dynamics, but at the same time, it was interesting exploration of relationships that did not start out on the best of footing with Spock and Bones and Kirk and Spock. The more rocky dynamic made for Spock and Bones' bonding more interesting because there is a mutual respect that largely goes unsaid. So, I think it got played well.

I think that Uhura and Spock's relationship should continue to go forward. I hate the idea of them being together and only to get torn apart by some ridiculous overblown fight. They have been through the destruction of Spock's homeworld, and the death of his mom, and continue to work on their relationship. If that isn't a realistic dynamic, I really don't know what is.

 

Bones summed it up in the movie, Spock was worried he should be off making little Vulcans.

 

Given the traditions of Vulcan culture, I doubt that would be consider acceptable.

 

It's not like he's the last of the Vulcans. He still regarded the traditions of the Vulcans to be important enough to save the elders.
They are still very traditional, regardless of the circumstances.

 

I would be curious to see if the Vulcan culture would make some changes, and if so, what changes those would be.

 

Spock is half human anyway so those little vulcans would be, regardless his partner, part human. Moot point is moot.

I still think the vulcans must have understood that waiting for mother nature to do its thing is not the most efficient and logical way to save their people, anyway. And I doubt all the vulcan lads are just waiting to get used as incubators. Spock must not be the only survivor with a career elsewhere, also. Will the vulcan lady who joined the academy in the latest comics, or the scientist from the videogame, be forced to give up everything?

In terms of continuing the vulcan culture, Spock's mixed kids, just like him, should not be dismissed just because they'd be part human. This includes the ones he could have with Uhura too. And if the vulcans wouldn't nitpick about his part human kids with a vulcan and still consider them useful, it would be hypocritical to make a problem about Spock being with a human then.

This thing reminds me of some cultures in earth that impose on people of x religion/race to not marry outside of their closed group.. and maybe it would be better for trek to avoid making these parallels (if not to contrast messages about bigotry), especially when it so obviously goes backwards with Spock's own story too.
You just know that if he were forced to give up everything to help people who had never accepted him, it would be just another pretext to deny him the right to be who he is: a mixed vulcan/human man.
It's easy to assume that on Vulcan with a vulcan Spock would have to essentially give up about his human side for good, and pretend to be just vulcan (and his kids would also be forced to ignore the fact that yes, they are part human no matter the 'amount' of that part), which again is going backwards with everything.
It's going back to kid Spock who basically called his father a hypocrite because he wanted him to be only vulcan and yet, he was the one who chose to marry a human therefore having a 'child of two worlds'. Part of Sarek's own character development in the first movie was exactly him coming to understand that his son can't neglect his human side and choose between him and Amanda.

and I think Spock would learn from that too and not want his kids to suffer what he suffered his whole life. He'd want his kids to be free to just be themselves.

tl dr: maybe it was just Mccoy making humor out of the situation and minimizing a more complex conflict to a cliché? Would be in character (and he wouldn't be serious because if he were, he'd recognize the fact that Spock is himself half human); makes more sense to me because I honestly doubt Spock is so naive to forget about his own biology, and I doubt the vulcans are saving their race by forcing their survivors into unwanted relationships. This is not a time to be traditional or 'babies must be made the old fashioned natural way!' romantic.

it simply comes across as putting the woman aside to give more screentime to Mccoy ( and Scotty), ignore the new trio with her, AND restore the old trio stuff to pander to those who don't like change and hate her for being a 'threat' (which I still find funny as a concept but sadly many are serious about this)

...which is what I knew Pegg would do because it was predictable with his bias for male dynamics (no doubt supported by a director who doesn't seem to be that different tbh.).
Breaking them up for most of the movie was an easy way out to not get out of his comfort zone.

 

No, it was actually actually the Enterprise destroying the enemy ships to those funky Beastie Boy beats.

Perhaps in Star Trek IV, the Enterprise crew could take on some interstellar bad guys with a little Flavor Flav...Maybe once the enemy is destroyed, Spock can turn to the camera and shout "Yeah Booooooy"!

Those scenes were embarrassing. Only the most hardcore fanboys can't admit it.

 

Let's not presume that people are incapable of honestly liking things you don't like.

 

Honestly, while I can appreciate Pegg's comfort zone, I think it was more a matter of exploring different dynamics within the crew. Kirk and Chekov, Spock and Bones, Uhura and Sulu, plus Scotty and Jaylah. It's interesting to note that Kirk doesn't end up with Jaylah as much, as is pretty standard Star Trek fare for the captain to interact with the guest female lead-even Picard.

That's an odd thing to say. Was Steppenwolf embarrassing in FC? Was Spock saying "colorful metaphors" embarassing in TVH?"
Why would Spock react that way,with Flavor Flav?

 

I thought there would be more time on the planet itself with the whole crew stuck in the prison camp. I expected some gladiatorial games, kinda riffing on the fight scene in "Amok Time", maybe even with some lirpas or batleths or something. I enjoyed the motorbike scene and the Beastie Boys though, I love a little modern stuff creeping into my sci-fi, same way I loved them listening to The Ramones in Space: Above and Beyond. The film was okay.

 

yeah, too bad they didn't explore any real dynamic with Sulu/Uhura and Kirk/Chekov.
but who knows, next time maybe John Cho and Zoe Saldana could too be suddenly 'unsure' about coming back for another movie unless they give them more screentime, or they could get hired as writers.

 

I highly doubt it would make anywhere near what Paramount would want, but I just watched "Bridge of spies" the other night and thought that if TPTB wanted to make a compelling Star Trek movie, they could make something more akin to a political or socio political thriller. You could still have action and space battles, but do something more like what TOS did and use the sci-fi setting as a cloak for allegory.

Again, I realize most in this crowd, and most people in general would likely frown upon that. But just look at how successful the new "Planet of the apes" movies are (In terms of storytelling), they're good because they examine the emotional character interactions and 'politics' of their fictional world. And in doing so evoke real emotional stakes and reactions from the audience.

Modern Star Trek just needs better writers, people with something to say. Hell, our modern world has plenty of fodder for allegory, one needn't look any further than the news.

 

I'm jumping up and down yelling enthusiastically in agreement.

And getting very funny looks from my family....