Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)

[Cutter John]

Man, what an emotional rollercoaster ride. From dispair, to joy in just a few seconds. I watche dit about a half hour ago and I'm still catching my breath!

Thought the Regeneration was just a bit too much of a throwaway, and towing the Earth a tad silly, but hey. Growing up watching Tom Baker has given me a pretty high tollerance for silliness in DW.

* Micky and Martha in Torchwood? YES!

* Now if you'll excuse me, its time to go visit OG and watch all the 'serious' fans pissing themselves.

* Six to fly a Tardis. Makes sense. And explains why he had so much trouble flying the thing all these years. I always did wonder why you needed an infinately large spaceship to support a handful of people.

* Damn that Davros has a good memory for faces.

* And DoctorDonna just rattles off a fix for the chamelion circuit!? So apparently the Doctors known how to fix it all this time?!
What a wonderful Timelady she would have made. A bit how I imagine a grown up Romana, or even a female Doctor would be like. Just gleefully laughing, pressing buttons and spouting technobabble. I finally just totally fell in love with her.
But despite all the good things and knowing something like this was coming, losing her is still devistating. What a sad, cruel ending to such a wonderful character. Its finally starting to sink in now.

* And Wilt never got a trip in the Tardis.

 

[diankra]

Flicking a few switches to make all the Daleks blow up (umm, how?) was quite anti-climatic.

It was okay. The best scene was the one with the Doctor and Wilf. Bernard Cribbins for the next companion!

Re: why the Daleks blew up - it's an old trick! Troughton did it first back in Power of the Daleks - the Doctor fed them too much power from the central supply.

 

[diankra]

Man, what an emotional rollercoaster ride. From dispair, to joy in just a few seconds. I watche dit about a half hour ago and I'm still catching my breath!

[SNIP]

* Damn that Davros has a good memory for faces.

[SNIP]

So far as we see, there were no women in the Kaled bunker back in Genesis. And according to some versions of Davros's history, he got crippled when he was 16. Could just be that his brief meeting with Sarah back then was the most significant he ever had with a woman in his life.
Would explain a lot...

 

[Hobs202]

Loved the brilliant twist involving Caan, brilliantly done. Then again, why bring back Davros at all to create a new Dalek race if he wanted the Daleks dead in the first place. I know that the things insane, but that's just stupid.

Maybe Caan saw that Davros could have escaped from the time-lock and this was the only possible path to destroy the Daleks once and for all.

The way I saw it is that Caan went back in time with the purpose of saving Davros and recreating the Dalek Empire. However, on the return trip to the future, he realized, "Oops! Maybe that wasn't such a good idea."

 

[wamdue]

talking of the future of the Whoverse, I hope Torchwood & SJA dont show an earth that has forgetten the Daleks, and the earth being moved, I really cant see how they can explain this away, unless Jack retcons the whole world.

as for the DoctorDonna& the chamelion circuit, ive long said that the Doctor should have fixed it by now, and been told, that its more about him not wanting to change it.

has Mickey & Martha in Torchwood been confirmed outside of this episode?

 

[Hobs202]

^ I've actually been thinking that in all three shows' upcoming seasons, the human race should become darker, and more xenophobic.

 

[Cutter John]

Oh, and how loud do you suppose the Squee was from all the female (and some male) fans at the sight of a shirtless David Tennent?

 

[exalted one]

Re: Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)

Ok, after watching the ep for the second time, I guess it is safe for me to comment on it.

This man Davies is doing something seriously wrong. He seems to have periodic bouts of megalomania and, dare I say that, fanboyishness. His ingredients are OK, but instead of making a viable episode with SOME of them, he puts them ALL into one contrived, over-the-top episode that is designed to overwhelm the audience - sacrificing the story in the process.

I guess he is simply good at imagining things - scenes, images, visuals, speeches - but he fails to connect them into a reasonable story. In Journey's End, it is more evident than ever. It is a bunch of wonderful, fantastic scenes, connected into one of the weakest stories I've ever seen, read or even wrote. It's more of an amusement park ride than an episode.

Men like RTD should have a gang of professional writers to take their wonderful ideas and work them into viable stories. They should never ever try to write the stories themselves, though. Because if they try, The Journey's End ensues.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Is this going to be the most one sided or most polarised voting result in NuWho?

Looks like it's neither. It's not quite one sided and not quite polarized.

...a nice linky ancestral moment for Gwen!

That was a nice touch! Finally ends years of speculation amongst fans.

Oh - and no cliffhanger...

Yeah, that surprised me! Nice going, Davies.

Julian Bleach was simply awesome as Davros. Loved that he and Sarah Jane got to trade words

I can't remember, did they really meet or is it a Khan/Checkov type affair?

They really meet. She was there in the beginning. She was in fact the first person in the story to lay eyes on him (of the three leads).

- Davros last scene was so typical for the character: he was nearly always left behind in some fire or explosion, only to turn up in a later season without much explanation. In that sense, it's a proper ending for him. Although we'll probably see him again in the future.

Yup, just like The Master on both counts.

Loved the brilliant twist involving Caan, brilliantly done. Then again, why bring back Davros at all to create a new Dalek race if he wanted the Daleks dead in the first place. I know that the things insane, but that's just stupid.

Who says insanity has anything to do with logic?

Didn’t like Earth flying home

Oh, I liked that. It gave me a The Pirate Planet and overall Douglas Adams feel to it.

(what next - Pluto being eaten?).

Well...since you mentioned it...

My big problem was Donnas fate. We’ve been building up to this all season. The Ood were mournful about it. The girl at the Shadow Proclamation was apologetic about it. River Song dismayed over it. And this terrible, terrible fate? She became an ordinary Londoner again. I think I feel mildly insulted!

I'm sorry you don't appreciate the tragedy of the situation. Take your absolute favorite set of memories. A long trip, a time at school, a friendship, or a lover. And then imagine having those memories completely wiped from your mind. And then throw in the fact someone who knows you knows you had these memories but can't tell you them or otherwise you would die. I would say that sucks pretty big.

Exactly. The whole thing was fucking retarded and just an excuse for Russell T. Davies to cram in as many characters as he possibly could for his grand finale. Why would the TARDIS be designed to be driven by six people? It's designed specifically for one Time Lord.

Erm, no. Nowhere in the classic series was that stated. IN FACT, I'm pretty sure it has been stated at least once (I'm thinking it was a Second Doctor story) where it's directly mentioned that the reason why he's always running around the console is because it was intended to be manned by six people.

They spend all this time setting up the end of the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. The day is saved by Donna receiving the Doctor's mind, fair enough. That was foreshadowed and was justifiable technobabble. But they save the day by throwing a few switches. The ENTIRE UNIVERSE and they throw a few switches, like in every other fucking RTD episode. RTD's utter lack of ingenuity or imagination popped out of the TV and gave us a nice mouth-fucking. I was fisted by his incompetence. Awful.

I'll admit the flipping of the switches was frustrating, but I don't mind it too badly. Davies certainly has down far worse with the previous three finales.

* And DoctorDonna just rattles off a fix for the chamelion circuit!? So apparently the Doctors known how to fix it all this time?!

Yeah, that was the impression I got as well.

 

[Kelthaz]

One thing that bugs me about this episode is what happened to the Shadow Proclamation? They were set up for the entire season as being vital to the arc and all they do is give the Doctor directions? I was expecting a Judoon fleet to come in and fight the Daleks giving the Doctor enough time to save the day.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

One thing that bugs me about this episode is what happened to the Shadow Proclamation? They were set up for the entire season as being vital to the arc and all they do is give the Doctor directions? I was expecting a Judoon fleet to come in and fight the Daleks giving the Doctor enough time to save the day.

Hm, good point. And they even said they were going to join The Doctor in battle. Surely they would have been able to trace the TARDIS' path?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)

* And DoctorDonna just rattles off a fix for the chamelion circuit!? So apparently the Doctors known how to fix it all this time?!

Yeah, that was the impression I got as well.

Of course the Doctor knows how to fix it. He fixed it way back in "Attack of the Cybermen." And then he unfixed it.

 

[PlainSimpleJoel]

Fantastic in every sense of the word, just fantastic, Dr who at its best, RTD has finished his time with Who the way he started it, on a brilliant action paced Who story, good for him, i will miss his interviews on confidential because he was just so enthusiastic about Who over his whole tenure with Who.

I felt it started off good. Really good, but after the Daleks were defeated. Way too easy. It slide a bit, as it happened everything up. Loved the DonnaDoctor moment.

This season of Who has been a absolute cracker.

Indeed ... gonna watch both episodes later in the night.

Roll on the Xmas special.

Who knows where I shall be, but hopefully I'll watch it.

 

[Cutter John]

One thing that bugs me about this episode is what happened to the Shadow Proclamation? They were set up for the entire season as being vital to the arc and all they do is give the Doctor directions? I was expecting a Judoon fleet to come in and fight the Daleks giving the Doctor enough time to save the day.

Hm, good point. And they even said they were going to join The Doctor in battle. Surely they would have been able to trace the TARDIS' path?

They may have, but were stifled by the 'one second in the future' thing, just like the Doctor.

Would've been a brilliant scene to have gotten a shot of just outside the Medusa Cascade of a mighty battle fleet just sitting there. With just a tiny pitiful electronic beeping sound. Like a cricket.

But that probably would've been too silly.

Of course the Doctor knows how to fix it. He fixed it way back in "Attack of the Cybermen." And then he unfixed it.

Well, I mean fix it so it actually works properly.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Re: Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)

Man, that was a fucking rip-roaring yarn!

I really didn't like the first part but this episode just sang to me, everything clicked and made me glad there's still a show out there that's not embarassed to be science fiction. I can appreciate the faults others have listed but I didn't feel them when I watching it. Had a smile throughout, honestly I haven't felt that warm watching a program in a long time. For once, one of these epic enders worked for me. I even liked that Donna's typing skills came into play.

Donna's fate was so sad, that was worse than death, to see her back to her old self with not even a sign of enlightenment. I really felt distraught, took the wind out of my sails after the rush of the episode. Shows have done this where a character resets to forget a tragedy but this was the reverse. Is RTD trying to show us what it would be like to take the Doctor away from us? I'm not sure if it's cruel or brilliant (maybe both). I said maybe she'd become a "Time Lady" in some other thread, and while she's not a native of Gallifrey, I ended up kind of close there.

And Mickey is back in the main universe, I always liked Mickey.

Gwen and Gwyneth apparently are connected in some wibbly wobbly timey wimey way. I wonder if Tosh and the pig doctor and Martha and the Torchwood employee are?

Oh and give Bernard Cribbins a BAFTA or whatever the hell Brits give their actors, that guy's good.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Gwen and Gwyneth apparently are connected in some wibbly wobbly timey wimey way. I wonder if Tosh and the pig doctor and Martha and the Torchwood employee are?

The pig doctor and Tosh are the one and the same. The Torchwood employee was Martha's cousin, Adeola Oshodi, as mentioned in "Smith and Jones."

 

[Servo]

Gwen and Gwyneth apparently are connected in some wibbly wobbly timey wimey way. I wonder if Tosh and the pig doctor and Martha and the Torchwood employee are?

Well, it's not really timey-wimey, Gwyneth is Gwen's Great Grandmother, or something.

It was revealed in Torchwood that Tosh was the pig doctor. It was supposed to be Owen working undercover for Torchwood, but he had a hangover, and Tosh covered for him by taking his place.

And yes, Adeola, who died at Canary Wharf, was Martha's cousin.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Re: Doctor Who – 4x13 – Journey’s End (Grade/Discuss)

Lord, I missed both of those. What episode of Torchwood was that?

 

[Servo]

Lord, I missed both of those. What episode of Torchwood was that?

In the second series finale, Exit Wounds.

 

[David cgc]

Lord, I missed both of those. What episode of Torchwood was that?

The Martha/Martha's cousin thing was said in "Smith and Jones." When the Doctor and Martha were looking out at the moonscape she mentioned her cousin was one of the ones who went missing at Canary Wharf.