Do you see the Maquis differently today?

[Guy Gardener]

How many people died when New Bajor fell?

According to Star Trek: Star Charts (pp. 70 & 74), New Bajor was a M-class planet. The official government of the world was the New Bajor Colony. Five years after the colony was destroyed, the colony was resettled. In 2376, New Bajor was admitted to the UFP. The capital of this world was New Rakantha. Dominant species was the humanoid Bajorans. The population of this planet in 2378 was 138,000. New Bajor orbited a G-class star.

New Bajor was smote a month after initial settlement. If they can comfortably house only a hundred and thirty eight thousand Bajorans, then it's feasible that there was probably significantly less than a hundred and 38 thousand colonists when the Jem'ha'dar depopulated the place.

 

[Tosk]

I broadly agree with this, except that I do not think the Federation "brought the Dominion." The Federation stayed away from Dominion space once contact was established, and the Dominion made its intention to conquer the Alpha Quadrant clear from that same moment.

I'm not sure I agree with your timeline. Third Talak'Talan informed the senior staff of DS9 that the Dominion would perceive any trips through the anomaly as interference. Three months later Starfleet sent the Defiant through anyway.

 

[DonIago]

It's hard for me to believe that the Defiant's sojourn into the GQ had any significant impact on the Dominion's intentions toward the AQ, though it may have led them to take a more measured approach of sending in Changelings to gain more intelligence and influence first.

 

[Farscape One]

Third Talak'talan said they were gaining more knowledge every day. That implies Changelings were already around a lot of areas. The Changelings want to control everywhere. They had their eyes on controlling the Alpha Quadrant as soon as the wormhole appeared.

 

[Charles Phipps]

While true, it's just an irony the Dominion became a Maquis problem totally from nowhere.

 

[Sci]

I'm not sure I agree with your timeline. Third Talak'Talan informed the senior staff of DS9 that the Dominion would perceive any trips through the anomaly as interference. Three months later Starfleet sent the Defiant through anyway.

He also said that Dominion intelligence operatives had already been gathering large amounts of information on the Alpha Quadrant and that he anticipated future combat. The Defiant's trip, meanwhile, precipitated Odo's return to the Great Link, a justification for which the Dominion has forgiven Federation ships in the Gamma Quadrant at other times; the Defiant crew also explicitly were on a diplomatic mission, which the Dominion knew when it captured O'Brien and Dax before capturing the Defiant. Certainly you are not arguing the Dominion decided to invade the Alpha Quadrant because the Federation sent a diplomatic mission?

 

[Tosk]

Certainly you are not arguing the Dominion decided to invade the Alpha Quadrant because the Federation sent a diplomatic mission?

I'm not arguing anything of the sort. My only point was to refute the notion that the Federation stayed out of the Gamma Quadrant when they were told to.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I'm not arguing anything of the sort. My only point was to refute the notion that the Federation stayed out of the Gamma Quadrant when they were told to.

The Dominion have been incredibly provocative throughout events and wiped out a Federation colony. However, the Federation never really entertains just mining the place or recognizing Dominion borders. It wasn't their fault but they don't really quite get how dangerous a bear they're poking.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It was a Bajoran Colony.

Did the Dominion have monitored borders and checkpoints?

It seems like they leave every one alone, wait for something to happen, wait another two years, show and awe, psychological examination, and then establish a line in space.

Dominion space is huge.

Even they probably don't have the manpower to guard their perimeter and the limits between each minor territory inside the Dominion.

 

[Charles Phipps]

It was a Bajoran Colony.

Did the Dominion have monitored borders and checkpoints?

It seems like they leave every one alone, wait for something to happen, wait another two years, show and awe, psychological examination, and then establish a line in space.

Dominion space is huge.

Even they probably don't have the manpower to guard their perimeter and the limits between each minor territory inside the Dominion.

Weirdly, it's the same "joke" that has been a discussion in Star Trek essays for decades and was used inside STAR TREK: DISCOVERY's opening episodes. In real life, the Federation's constant expansion and incorporation of people into its organization is an incredibly provocative act.

"Members of the Federation, what you call your most remote borders I call too close to Klingon territory."

In the Dominion's case, the Federation is now an enormous power house that is suddenly on their borders and capable of threatening them militarily and offering a potential alliance to enemies. It's wrong because the Dominion is the bad guys and our heroes are the good guys but effectively the wormhole is a Cuban Missile Crisis in the making.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The founders were once a persecuted minority.

They fixed that by taking over.

It wasn't the military of the Federation that they were concerned about it was the xenophobia.

They wanted to take all that hate, douse it in kerosine and cook marshmallows over the burning cities of their would be oppressors.

 

[Farscape One]

One thing I always wondered about regarding the Changelings.

By the time the Dominion War starts, Changelings are fairly well known throughout the Alpha Quadrant powers.

Are they still considered somewhat mythical by species within the Dominion, other than the Vorta and Jem'Hadar?

 

[DonIago]

It seems likely that the Dosi and Karemma rarely if ever encountered Founders. I kind of got the sense that the hierarchy within the Dominion is:
Founders
Vorta
Jem'hadar
...
...
...
Gamma Quadrant races that are part of the Dominion
...
...
...
Cardassians

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

One thing I always wondered about regarding the Changelings.

By the time the Dominion War starts, Changelings are fairly well known throughout the Alpha Quadrant powers.

Are they still considered somewhat mythical by species within the Dominion, other than the Vorta and Jem'Hadar?

They had no interest in revealing themselves as the Founders until the Federation got involved and Odo came along. If Odo wasn't a factor, the Dominion would have destroyed the Defiant during The Search. If the war then ignited, the Feds wouldn't even be aware that Changeling infiltration was a thing. They would almost certainly have lost. The only reason the solids were released unharmed after The Search is because the Founders were indulging Odo, and were arrogant enough to consider the Federation knowledge of who the Founders actually were to be of little consequence.

 

[DonIago]

I'm not sure that's quite true. In "The Search" they probed Our Heroes' minds in order to get a sense of how the AQ would react to a Dominion foothold. You may be right that Our Heroes would have been killed afterward if Odo hadn't intervened, but there's some wiggle room there. The Founders may have decided they'd be better off letting Our Heroes return and proceeding on their own timetable later, rather than having additional ships enter the GQ looking for Defiant sooner.

 

[kkt]

It seems likely that the Dosi and Karemma rarely if ever encountered Founders. I kind of got the sense that the hierarchy within the Dominion is:
Founders
Vorta
Jem'hadar
...
...
...
Gamma Quadrant races that are part of the Dominion
...
...
...
Cardassians

I started to say that when the Cardassians were winning they were up there with the Dominion Gamma Quadrant races. But that's not really true. They were down at the bottom, along with the Romulans, after the attempted genocide. Even if the Cardassian-Dominion alliance had won the war, the Dominion would have exterminated Cardassia when the time was right.

 

[DonIago]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the Founders were never going to forgive the Cardassians.

 

[at Quark's]

They were down at the bottom, along with the Romulans, after the attempted genocide. Even if the Cardassian-Dominion alliance had won the war, the Dominion would have exterminated Cardassia when the time was right.

One wonders if Sisko ever considered using it as an honest argument to try to convince the Romulans before he considered deception : 'listen, if you stay neutral you may last a while longer but you'll still be toast anyway - no chance they'll ever forgive you for trying to attack their home planet- here look at this 'Cardassia is dead' clip from the female changeling. We're still convinced they're only using Cardassia as a tool now, to be disposed of when they have no more utility. What makes you think you will fare any better?'.

 

[DonIago]

While Sisko didn't specifically go there, IIRC he does argue that if the other AQ powers lose the war then there's not going to be much reason for the Dominion to leave the Romulans alone.

Treaties are, in the end, just pieces of (electronic) paper.

 

[trekshark]

The Sonar are going to die before the natural effects of the rings can ease them back to a state of youth..

which doesn't make sense since a couple of days exposure removed picards wrinkles, firmed up troi and crushers boobs,a nd regrew geordi's eyes. Had geordi even been on the surface yet at that point or was his healing just from orbital exposure?
I think the son'a just claimed that so they could steal the benefits of the planet as an F you to the baku