Do you see the Maquis differently today?

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

Simple question, what with all of the protests currently going down. Do you see the Maquis differently today than you did when DS9 first aired? Let's maybe focus on the DS9 Maquis vs anything Voyager brought to the table, shall we?

I just watched Blaze of Glory for the first time in a long time, and I think that if it was made today, they might show the Maquis in an even more sympathetic light.

 

[Farscape One]

My opinion now is the same as when it first aired.

At first, the Maquis are freedom fighters, fighting for their homes and their people. That got my sympathy and I was rooting for them.

They later got aggressive, particularly when Eddington showed his true colors. They attacked worlds and targets outside their colonies and systems. They attacked ships that were not threatening their colonies. They sabotaged a Starfleet ship and attacked it and severely damaged another Starfleet ship. They poisoned an entire world with a weapon that specifically targets Cardassians.

Those are not actions of freedom fighters. Those are actions of terrorists. They lost my sympathy the minute they went that route.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I have never had even a shred of sympathy for the Maquis.

They say they were fighting for their homes? Yeah, yeah, we've heard all that before. But the greater good must be considered. When the alternative is war with Cardassia, a few colonists packing up and moving (which they had every opportunity to do - no one was forcing them to stay) is an acceptable alternative.

Especially in the Federation, where there is a near-infinite amount of living space, and those "homes" can be re-created in precise detail on any world they choose.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

My opinion now is the same as when it first aired.

At first, the Maquis are freedom fighters, fighting for their homes and their people. That got my sympathy and I was rooting for them.

They later got aggressive, particularly when Eddington showed his true colors. They attacked worlds and targets outside their colonies and systems. They attacked ships that were not threatening their colonies. They sabotaged a Starfleet ship and attacked it and severely damaged another Starfleet ship. They poisoned an entire world with a weapon that specifically targets Cardassians.

Those are not actions of freedom fighters. Those are actions of terrorists. They lost my sympathy the minute they went that route.

If your land is taken from you from the stroke of a pen and a hostile force is trying to kill you, you think asking nicely is going to do the trick?

I don't know whether they're right or they're wrong, but your rhetoric is sounding a lot like the rhetoric against black lives matter protests, or excusing the seizure of Native American land. I'm not sure, on balance, if their actions were justified or if they were wise, but it's far more nuanced a question than "They crossed a line in the sand and immediately became the bad guys".

I doubt they would have gotten much traction kneeling during the Federation anthem.

It's not made clear whether giving that land was truly the only way to end the war, but it's a valid question whether the land was truly theirs to give just because they claimed it in their territory. You can say "The treaty was legal", but the law was written by the powerful who didn't have to give up anything important to them.

 

[Tosk]

They say they were fighting for their homes? Yeah, yeah, we've heard all that before. But the greater good must be considered.

So I assume you'd be totally fine with the government of your country kicking you out of your house because they need it?

 

[Farscape One]

If your land is taken from you from the stroke of a pen and a hostile force is trying to kill you, you think asking nicely is going to do the trick?

I don't know whether they're right or they're wrong, but your rhetoric is sounding a lot like the rhetoric against black lives matter protests, or excusing the seizure of Native American land. I'm not sure, on balance, if their actions were justified or if they were wise, but it's far more nuanced a question than "They crossed a line in the sand and immediately became the bad guys".

I doubt they would have gotten much traction kneeling during the Federation anthem.

It's not made clear whether giving that land was truly the only way to end the war, but it's a valid question whether the land was truly theirs to give just because they claimed it in their territory. You can say "The treaty was legal", but the law was written by the powerful who didn't have to give up anything important to them.

I have no problem with them defending their land and home and lives in their own colonies. I was rooting for them. But they ended up going outside their colonies and homes and attacked Starfleet AND Cardassian ships. They used a BIOLOGICAL weapon. Even the Cardassians didn't do that to the Maquis.

They crossed a line that went from defense to outright aggression and being a threat.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The biological weapon they used was slow acting enough to allow evacuation. And that was one man, Eddington was a narcissist who made the rebellion about him.

 

[Farscape One]

Even still, they were using it on a world that was OUTSIDE their colonies and territory.

Exactly how is that defending your home?

 

[Guy Gardener]

I have never had even a shred of sympathy for the Maquis.

They say they were fighting for their homes? Yeah, yeah, we've heard all that before. But the greater good must be considered. When the alternative is war with Cardassia, a few colonists packing up and moving (which they had every opportunity to do - no one was forcing them to stay) is an acceptable alternative.

Especially in the Federation, where there is a near-infinite amount of living space, and those "homes" can be re-created in precise detail on any world they choose.

That was a farewell tour.

Eddington was neuro-linguistucally programming Sisko to bomb a planet, so that he could surrender as a hero under the foot of the evil Federation, to a roaring applause.

Dude I love this book.

Read the book that I love.

I'll give you a free copy.

I'm Jean Valjean (which is the frucking name of Chakotay's ship in Caretaker) and you're Javert.

You're Javert.

YOU'RE JAVERT.

My nemesis who will completely defeat me, who is the only person who can defeat me...

You're Javert.

 

[somebuddyX]

I really hope Jake Sisko was making videos for Space Youtube exposing the dipshit Federation politicians who signed off on the treaty in the first place.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Federation decided that peace was more important than territory.

There was probably a 50 year plan to assimilate the Cardassian Union via friendliness.

Get the cardies to sign up to the Federation, and then all Cardassian space belongs to Federation, in just 50 years.

All projections on this issue, did not include the presence of the Dominion shaking things up, and setting the Alpha Quadrant on fire.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I honestly am confused as to why the Federation were so desperate to placate the Cardassians who were shown time and again to be a much weaker power. A single Nebula class ship was more than a match for multiple Cardassian warships, they struggled against the Maquis and the Klingons steam-rolled them in about 3 days.

As for the Maquis, I've always held the view that the Federation betrayed their own people for very little in return, and the Maquis were right in fighting back against both the Cardassians and Federation

 

[Guy Gardener]

Weaker powers use worse weapons.

Biogenic weapons.

Omega particle weapons.

They can't win without using WMDs that make civilized people blush.

It's possible that the Klingons got through to the Cardassia Prime so quickly, becuase that Border was protected by treaty, and not phasers.

 

[Imaus]

I never liked the Maquis because they seemed like a non-issue.

Just...evacuate the worlds. The Federation, whose ships are jack-of-all-trades with huge cargo holds and ships made for evacuations, hardly if ever evacuated anyone. In TNG we get that episode about the Native Americans, in DS9 its mostly backstory?

The Federation comes and tell these hundreds to thousands of colonists to get on the damn ship. Repatriations will be paid and it's easy for them to do so. If you don't, you then renounce Federation citizenship and will be a Cardassian citizen. If you're in the Neutral Zone - GET ON THE SHIP, or declare outright neutrality with bipartisan oversight via a agency there.

I never got the implication that these worlds were like, garden utopias to fight over, to die over. The Galaxy isn't dead or lifeless, the Federation isn't short on space. They seemed like assholes took their families to the frontier and got mad than the frontier wouldn't bend their way.

The Maquis came across as less 'abandoned peoples' and more like 'stuck up assholes without any ground to stand on' in this FTL wonderland. They chose to go out there, then they refused to pack their tin can assemble-in-a-day huts and go somewhere else, and then tried to make themselves as big as a problem as possible over a non-issue.

Sure the Cardassians were going to come back and try again, yes the Cardassians were backstabbing totalitarian xenophobic wads (and that just makes the idea of getting the hell away from them by state-sponsored ship even more alluring). But these people can literally go anywhere, there's like thousands of cubic ly to go to, just leave. I guess I'm a bit of a statist, sure, but its not like the Federation would be liable to not relocate them without anything, the Federation does this sort of thing ALL THE TIME and no one else has rebelled when it was the Sheliak or with the Romulans or Klingons or Gorn or Tholians. What makes the Maquis so darn special?

It should be a darn clause in some Federation Colonial Administration that any Colony world, until it becomes a Member or too 'entrenched' may have to be uprooted on the fly and that's just colony-frontier life.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So I assume you'd be totally fine with the government of your country kicking you out of your house because they need it?

Eminent domain does exist, yes.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

The reasons for not packing up and moving seemed flimsy but the whole treaty was crap. Why swap some planets for others in the treaty it just seemed arbitrary.

Bit the revised treaty where the people got to stay but the planets changed hands was abused by the Cardassian almost immediately.

At first I loved the politics behind the Maquis storyline as it had many relevant mirrors to Ireland in the 90s but DS9 sadly took out all the nuances with Eddington and made them Panto villians

 

[Relayer1]

I thought the Maquis were in the right then.

I think the Maquis were in the right now.

 

[somebuddyX]

Obviously the the Maquis were created for use on Voyager but were they even necessary for the show?. Would the show work the same if they'd just been ex-Starfleet space pirates? If the Cardassians weren't already a major part of DS9 could you have a Cardassian and Starfleet crew mixed together? Not asking if it would work better but would it work the same.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

Obviously the the Maquis were created for use on Voyager but were they even necessary for the show?. Would the show work the same if they'd just been ex-Starfleet space pirates? If the Cardassians weren't already a major part of DS9 could you have a Cardassian and Starfleet crew mixed together? Not asking if it would work better but would it work the same.

I doubt they were put into later TNG and were one of the main protagonists in DS9 just to give VOG half a crew

 

[somebuddyX]

Uh huh.