Do you like ENT or not,why?

[Coops]

I've not re-watched it for a wee while now but the last time I did I felt it was a fairly decent attempt to make Trek a bit more mainstream and grounded. A little ahead of its time, I feel had no TV Trek happened after Voyager finished and it had premiered about ten years ago it could've been huge.

 

[Mr J]

I loved Enterprise... warts and all. I was a regular poster on here when it launched, and often found myself defending it to the hilt.

Was it brilliant? Not always no. Did I love the simplicity of it, the aesthetic, the production, the characters and the actors? Very much so. I also believe it turned into something quite special (particularly when Manny Coto joined). It really was a superb cast.

Re-watching it now - I embrace the flaws. I'll quite happily rewatch S3 and the Xindi arc. Interestingly I find S4 less rewatchable than I did at the time. It was a show that could have been so much more, but I think given the context of what the writers were working within they did they did what they could.

 

[1001001]

My wife and I are currently in a rewatch of ENT. Last episode we watched was Fusion.

I might have more thoughts later, but so far I'd say it's very enjoyable. Although we liked it the first time anyway.

I had hoped to engage my pal John in some commentary, but alas the strike forbids it.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

^^ Perhaps we could get John's thoughts later, when the Business of Show is officially up and running again? Any comments. About any episode. Or makeup. Or behind the scenes. Would be awesome.

 

[tomalak301]

I’ve found that I want to rewatch the series every few years and I’m currently in one right now. I just rewatched Stigma which is a pretty good message show. However, season 2 continues to be a struggle. It’s not that it’s bad but it’s just kind of dull. Still I know the good stuff is coming and the character development shifts into high gear.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I don't.

I barely watched first run. Rewatched from start to finish once a few years ago.

Imo, ENT has the worst cast of any Trek series, the worst captain, and the most horribly underused and misused actors (what they routinely did to Jolene Blalock was awful and what they routinely couldn't be bothered to do with Linda Park almost as bad).

Season 1 was the epitomy of mediocre to bad Berman Trek consistently mired in stale franchise cliches. Season 2 almost kind of sort of works as a series about actual sci-fi exploration, but remains far from memorable. Season 3 was a 'daring experiment' that was already years behind the times compared to other franchises yet also incredibly badly executed. And season 4 was mostly vacuous fan-service with little if anything to say bookended by some of the worst episodes in the franchise.

The good parts of the premise (founding the Federation) were largely sacrificed at the altar of the dumb parts (temporal cold war, which they clearly never even had a real story concept for). The theme was fine but kind of boring and they really, really ruined what musical enjoyability it had with that awful remix halfway through the show. Plus I found and still find it disappointing to completely throw out the tradition of awesome orchestral music, especially considering modern Trek has clearly proven you can easily do something new and different without abandoning the orchestral tradition.

Having said all of that, I could see myself rewatching a few specific episodes again someday. In particular, the Vulcan/Andorian diplomacy arc across all four seasons was reasonably well done and easily the best thing to come out of the series and Shran and Soval are by far the best characters on the show. Also, I agree Porthos was adorable.

 

[1001001]

^^ Perhaps we could get John's thoughts later, when the Business of Show is officially up and running again? Any comments. About any episode. Or makeup. Or behind the scenes. Would be awesome.

I will see what I can do.

 

[Farscape One]

Put me in the camp of loving ENTERPRISE. There's a great deal to love about this show. (This thread is long for the amount of time I have to post right now, so forgive me if I'm repeating points others have made.)


1. Scott Bakula. I loved him on QUANTUM LEAP, and was thrilled when I heard he was cast as the latest captain. He's a good leading man, and everything I've ever heard about him says he's the kind of guy you want to work with. (I do wish we got to see him direct once, though. Like he did on QUANTUM LEAP.)

2. The pilot. Take out the Temporal Cold War, and I feel it's the best pilot of the franchise.

3. The Enterprise herself. I really liked the feel of it. It feels like it's the middle ground between a submarine and what we see on TOS. (Still having buttons and levers, not really roomy like 24th century ships, etc.)

4. It was nice to see humans NOT be the top dog of the Alpha Quadrant. We had to earn our spot, and I like that we got to see some of that.

5. A likeable cast. All the cast were likeable, even if one in particular was boring.

6. Shran. Jeffrey freaking Combs, and really learning about the Andorians after 35 years at that point.

7. Vulcans. I thought they were written well here. Or more to the point, how they really are. If you look at Spock or Tuvok, there is a great of snark and condescension buried just beneath their dialogue when they speak to certain races. Their superiority streak is on full display here, and it actually works for the era.

8. Season four. This is quite possibly the gold standard on how to utilize a season. You have two and three parters, with some standalones mixed in. Fantastic use of budget, allowance of a story to go on just long enough without wearing out its welcome (I'm looking at you DISCO and PICARD), and great way to weave the franchise mythology, for lack of a better term, into established lore.

9. Sense of wonder and amazement. You really get that in season 1, and I feel it's something STAR TREK had missed in a while. You're explorers... you SHOULD be amazed at what you see out there. This crew truly recaptured that feeling in season 1.


Did it have flaws? Definitely. Temporal Cold War is the ONE thing I would eliminate from the franchise if I could. Season 2 was very mediocre overall. Retreads of some stories done better on other shows.

But every show had its flaws. (Yes, even DS9, which if you have seen any of my posting history, you'll know how highly I rank that series.) I'm not going to damn ENTERPRISE for not being flawless. This series earned its place in the franchise, and as far as I'm concerned, I love it for being the show it was.

 

[Jeyl]

4. It was nice to see humans NOT be the top dog of the Alpha Quadrant. We had to earn our spot, and I like that we got to see some of that.

7. Vulcans. I thought they were written well here. Or more to the point, how they really are. If you look at Spock or Tuvok, there is a great of snark and condescension buried just beneath their dialogue when they speak to certain races. Their superiority streak is on full display here, and it actually works for the era.

You certainly make this show come off as though the Vulcans were the actual enemy who needed to be brought down in order for Humanity to become the dominate race of the galaxy. When Vulcans act all superior and condescending, they're the jerks. When Humans do it, they're awe-inspiring and worthy of appraisal. After all, this is what Humanity being the "top dog" is like in the 24th century.

"What a piece of work is man. How noble in reason. How infinite in faculty. In form, in moving, how express and admirable. In action, how like an angel. In apprehension, how like a god."
- Picard, quoting Shakespear but not with it's intended meaning

 

[Farscape One]

You certainly make this show come off as though the Vulcans were the actual enemy who needed to be brought down in order for Humanity to become the dominate race of the galaxy. When Vulcans act all superior and condescending, they're the jerks. When Humans do it, they're awe-inspiring and worthy of appraisal. After all, this is what Humanity being the "top dog" is like in the 24th century.

"What a piece of work is man. How noble in reason. How infinite in faculty. In form, in moving, how express and admirable. In action, how like an angel. In apprehension, how like a god."
- Picard, quoting Shakespear but not with it's intended meaning

You're drawing some odd conclusion that I was never trying to make. I wasn't trying to paint the Vulcans as the enemy, nor did I ever think of them as such. I also never said that humans were awe-inspiring and worthy of praise. I was simply stating it was nice to see humans not be in the top spot of galactic events and had to earn the spot they eventually got and it was also nice to see the writers remembered Spock and Tuvok and their respective actors' performances and how it's a microcosm of general Vulcan attitudes.

I'm pretty sure I've said this in the past, but I'll say it again here... Vulcans, more than most races, actually have a good reason to feel superior to others. They are much stronger, physically, than most humanoids. They are extremely intelligent. They live at minimum over 200 years. I hate snobbish attitudes in real life, but I can see why Vulcans would be that way.

Vulcans, like every other species, have their strengths and flaws. How is pointing out ENT remembering one of the main flaws of Vulcans the same thing as calling them the enemy?

 

[Mr J]

While overall I liked the angle ENT gave the Vulcan/Human relationship - too many a time when a Vulcan was acting like an arrogant ass, the human characters would deal with it by being massively churlish and basically affirming all of the Vulcans views by throwing a paddy or some insults their way...

 

[Sumire]

Admittedly I absolutely adore enemies to lovers, rivals to teammates, antagonists to friends and any other permutation of the trope so I am far from unbiased but I loved getting the chance to see humans and Vulcans learn to understand each other. It’s one thing to intellectually be aware that different cultures exist and quite another thing to learn how your foundational understanding of reality is completely shaped by your culture.

Unpacking what you believe about the universe you live in and how that influences your values, your judgements, your tastes, so that you can understand how another’s cultural beliefs influence their values, judgements and tastes? It’s such a challenging and thrilling adventure! Enterprise didn’t perfectly encapsulate every part of that journey but I have to give them a lot of credit for the attempt and for the enthralling and moving parts they did get.

 

[tomalak301]

While overall I liked the angle ENT gave the Vulcan/Human relationship - too many a time when a Vulcan was acting like an arrogant ass, the human characters would deal with it by being massively churlish and basically affirming all of the Vulcans views by throwing a paddy or some insults their way...

I’m just curious, but how would you react if you felt like the Vulcans, who you thought would help humanity, holds humanity back and does everything to foil progress until the Kir’Shara is discovered. I probably would be pissed off as well.

 

[Victoria]

It seems to me that the Vulcans were working on the principles of the Prime Directive: you don't "give" things to cultures until they can produce things at the same technicological level. And the Humans felt as pissed-off as all the cultures did who were later treated by Humans in the same way...

Of course, everyone behaving like adults would have helped rather than the overly parental attitude of the Vulcans (we know best) and the childish Humans (wah, wah, wah).

 

[Farscape One]

The Vulcans have helped humans... like in "BREAKING THE ICE" when the shuttlepod was stuck.

But they also have tried to halt or slow their movement into space, like in "BROKEN BOW".

 

[flandry84]

It was just so unremittingly earnest and dull.
Some really goofball episodes like “The squire..”etc might just have leavened proceedings.Look at SNW,it’s not afraid to play silly some(most) of the time.(Personally hated the in-laws episode but there you go).
Archer was just so goddam solemn and the other cast members were lost in the shuffle IMO.
You might say that Archer had reason to be solemn after the Xindi and such but man after DS9 and the Dominion war did Trek really need another long-running grimfest?

 

[Kor]

Honestly I just didn't find ENT very entertaining at all in the first two seasons. Season 3 got a little more interesting, and then season 4 was fun but purely on the merits of its overt fanboyishness.

Kor

 

[DonIago]

I’m just curious, but how would you react if you felt like the Vulcans, who you thought would help humanity, holds humanity back and does everything to foil progress until the Kir’Shara is discovered. I probably would be pissed off as well.

Based on how Archer and Trip in particular tended to behave earlier in the series, I was left with the sense that humanity deserved to be held back.

 

[Dukhat]

Based on how Archer and Trip in particular tended to behave earlier in the series, I was left with the sense that humanity deserved to be held back.

Yeah, they were not prime examples of humanity at its finest. But the writers and producers should have went with that as exactly the reason for the Vulcans doing what they did. But instead Archer and Trip were portrayed as the ones we should have sympathy for, despite their off-putting attitudes and behavior.

 

[DonIago]

I do kind of wonder whether TPTB really thought that they were writing Archer and Trip in a way intended to engender audience sympathy rather than audience disdain. Maybe it varied by the writer?

I'd give them a lot more credit for deliberately writing them in a way intended to make the audience feel the Vulcans had a point.

My least favorite ENT moment in terms of what it did for Archer's character, from "Fallen Hero":
TRAVIS: They're right on top of us.
ARCHER: How long?
T'POL: Eight minutes.
(Big bang.)
REED: That's a direct hit to our starboard nacelle.
TRAVIS: We're dropping to impulse.
HOSHI: They're hailing us.
ARCHER: How long now?
T'POL: If they received our message, another ten minutes.
ARCHER: I thought it was down to eight.
T'POL: That was before we dropped out of warp.

Seriously, Archer needs to be told that if the ship slows down then it will be longer to get somewhere?