Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[Yistaan]

You are assuming Prime, Mirror and Kelvin are the only universes that exist. Within Star Trek we already know that is not true.

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By that logic, any specific episode might not be in the Prime universe. We might as well say that there is no proof 'Spock's Brain', 'Code of Honor' or 'Threshold' are in the Prime universe due to the poor quality of those episodes.

Episodes with dialogue errors like "Klingons joined the Federation", Data's "Class of 76" and more could be attributed to parallel universes by that logic. Insurrection wouldn't take place in the Prime Universe due to Troi's "I never kissed you with a beard before" when she kissed Riker tons of times with a beard in the Prime universe.

 

[jaime]

Yes, actually within the context of the show itself we do know what universe it takes place in.

There are 3 universes established in Trek that lasted in more than one episode/movie: Mirror Universe, Kelvin Timeline, and Prime Timeline.

We know they aren't in the Mirror universe obviously since the Discovery went there. And we now know from the Discovery Season finale that they aren't in the Kelvin Timeline. How? In the 2009 Star Trek movie in the Kelvin timeline, Pike outright says that the Enterprise NCC-1701 is brand new in 2258. The 2009 film was the Kelvin NCC-1701 maiden voyage.

However, in 2257 in Discovery Pike is already captaining the existing NCC-1701. Therefore, Discovery can't take place in the Kelvin timeline.

Thus, by process of elimination we can deduce that Discovery is in the Prime timeline even if it isn't stated outright on screen.

Let’s not forget the lack of cinders with Amanda on it.

 

[Nyotarules]

Thus, by process of elimination we can deduce that Discovery is in the Prime timeline even if it isn't stated outright on screen.

No, by process of elimination we can deduce that Discovery is in any universe but the TOS one and the TOS Mirror one. Exhibit A, TNG episode Parallels

Owosekun* I have checked Starfleet records. There is no record of Michael Burnham every existing. It shows Commander Spock is the only child.

"According to Starfleet records there are 30 Michael Burnhams.... all male, however one was born female, and resides on the Earth Vulcan colony with his Vulcan bondmate...Stonn.

 

[fireproof78]

Interesting you said that. I was basing it in part on Year of Hell (one of the better if not the best VOY episodes)

Joke. It was a joke.

 

[ITDUDE]

By that logic, any specific episode might not be in the Prime universe. We might as well say that there is no proof 'Spock's Brain', 'Code of Honor' or 'Threshold' are in the Prime universe due to the poor quality of those episodes.

They could be, but not likely. We don't question it since there is nothing that contradicts known continuity, so there is no reason to think it otherwise. The episodes show continuity within the series they are in, and TNG/DS9/VOY show continuity between each other. STD doesn't share continuity with any known Trek.

 

[Yistaan]

They could be, but not likely. We don't question it since there is nothing that contradicts known continuity, so there is no reason to think it otherwise. The episodes show continuity within the series they are in, and TNG/DS9/VOY show continuity between each other. STD doesn't share continuity with any known Trek.

Insurrection contradicts with "never kissed you with a beard before", Klingons "joined the Federation" in on episode of TNG, and Data is from "the class of 78". Are all those works in parallel universes?

Star Trek 5 outright said Spock had a half brother contradicting 'Journey to Babel''s only child comment. Sarek says Amanda was his first wife in TNG when there was obviously a previous one in ST 5.

Spot changed from male to female in TNG! Does this mean that all episodes with female Spot are in a parallel universe?

Discovery outright mentions the USS Defiant incident in the mirror universe and this is confirmed this is the same Defiant in their universe.

 

[ITDUDE]

Insurrection contradicts with "never kissed you with a beard before", Klingons "joined the Federation" in on episode of TNG, and Data is from "the class of 78". Are all those works in parallel universes?

Star Trek 5 outright said Spock had a half brother contradicting 'Journey to Babel''s only child comment. Sarek says Amanda was his first wife in TNG when there was obviously a previous one in ST 5.

Spot changed from male to female in TNG! Does this mean that all episodes with female Spot are in a parallel universe?

Discovery outright mentions the USS Defiant incident in the mirror universe and this is confirmed this is the same Defiant in their universe.

I knew I'd walk into these ones. Sigh.. somethings are better off to ignore to keep suspension of disbelief. Some of these you can just ignore as writers errors. Spot could be two different cats (many people get same species, and name the cat the same after previous one dies) And if it makes you feel better, some episodes can be from completely from different universe. ENT did it, so it's possible.
But for the most part we are not questioning if an episode or two are from a different universe. We are questioning if the whole SERIES is in a different universe. STD just has too many inconsistencies to be easily ignored. We KNOW it was always meant to be 25% different from Prime Trek. So it's not so easy to suspend disbelief when the whole premise of the show screams different universe.

 

[jaime]

I knew I'd walk into these ones. Sigh.. somethings are better off to ignore to keep suspension of disbelief. Some of these you can just ignore as writers errors. Spot could be two different cats (many people get same species, and name the cat the same after previous one dies) And if it makes you feel better, some episodes can be from completely from different universe. ENT did it, so it's possible.
But for the most part we are not questioning if an episode or two are from a different universe. We are questioning if the whole SERIES is in a different universe. STD just has too many inconsistencies to be easily ignored. We KNOW it was always meant to be 25% different from Prime Trek. So it's not so easy to suspend disbelief when the whole premise of the show screams different universe.

Nope. We heard the enterprise was supposed to be 25 percent different. I posited it was for merchandising reasons as the most likely reason.
Everything else?
It’s been stated as Prime.

 

[ITDUDE]

Nope. We heard the enterprise was supposed to be 25 percent different. I posited it was for merchandising reasons as the most likely reason.

Merchandising doesn't stop at Enterprise. Anything sold as "Star Trek: Discovery" merchandise will require separate license.

 

[Yistaan]

I knew I'd walk into these ones. Sigh.. somethings are better off to ignore to keep suspension of disbelief. Some of these you can just ignore as writers errors. Spot could be two different cats (many people get same species, and name the cat the same after previous one dies) And if it makes you feel better, some episodes can be from completely from different universe. ENT did it, so it's possible.
But for the most part we are not questioning if an episode or two are from a different universe. We are questioning if the whole SERIES is in a different universe. STD just has too many inconsistencies to be easily ignored. We KNOW it was always meant to be 25% different from Prime Trek. So it's not so easy to suspend disbelief when the whole premise of the show screams different universe.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. It would probably take Pike saying this ship is brand new and never went on a voyage before in Season 2 and then getting chopped up and irreparably killed in the same season (so he can't get zapped by delta radiation and wheelchaired) to make me think the universe was different than Prime. I just understand that 21st century special effects need to be updated and don't feel they should be beholden to a 60s show, and the remaster of TOS was more or less in that vein.

One contradiction I will acknowledge however is that DSC now adds a whole Klingon war trauma that presumably the TOS crew went through but strangely never mentioned. Spock, Scotty, and Kirk don't share Klingon war stories on TOS. Stiles seems way more traumatized about Romulans whose ancestors killed his ancestors 100 years ago than anyone in TOS feels about Klingons who they presumably fought in their lifetime.

While not a contradiction per se, Scotty beaming the tribbles to Koloth's ship in TOS would now be unthinkable if the Federation just fought a war it almost lost to the Klingons not too long ago. Instead of laughing about it, Kirk would have thrown Scotty into the brig and immediately called someone to ask how he could make things right. The DSC war puts the interactions with Klingons in 'Tribbles' in a very odd light (although to be fair it was already odd going by Errand of Mercy where the situation was also very serious).

 

[BillJ]

Star Trek 5 outright said Spock had a half brother contradicting 'Journey to Babel''s only child comment

Not sure that was ever said...

 

[fireproof78]

While not a contradiction per se, Scotty beaming the tribbles to Koloth's ship in TOS would now be unthinkable if the Federation just fought a war it almost lost to the Klingons not too long ago. Instead of laughing about it, Kirk would have thrown Scotty into the brig and immediately called someone to ask how he could make things right. The DSC war puts the interactions with Klingons in 'Tribbles' in a very odd light (although to be fair it was already odd going by Errand of Mercy where the situation was also very serious).

It was for more of a "this for that" situation, where Koloth felt he could run roughshod over Kirk and the Federation due to the treaty, and Kirk sending it right back once it was exposed that the Klingons were not acting in good faith.

I just understand that 21st century special effects need to be updated and don't feel they should be beholden to a 60s show, and the remaster of TOS was more or less in that vein.

Same here. Visuals don't need to be consistent for me in a fictional universe for me to accept them within the same continuity.

Of course, this will now bring on the "Well, what about if (fill in hyperbolic suggestion here)?" I'll deal with Star Trek as it comes and as it is presented, not how I wish it to be.

 

[Yistaan]

Not sure that was ever said...

Hmm, I would have to rewatch. Klingon blood in Star Trek 6, and a key point of uncovering Colonel West, is also a major contradiction with any other Trek. ST6 and TNG would not be in the same universe per this logic.

 

[fireproof78]

Hmm, I would have to rewatch. Klingon blood in Star Trek 6, and a key point of uncovering Colonel West, is also a major contradiction with any other Trek. ST6 and TNG would not be in the same universe per this logic.

Also, a good point. Clearly those Klingons are not real Klingons

 

[jaime]

Merchandising doesn't stop at Enterprise. Anything sold as "Star Trek: Discovery" merchandise will require separate license.

Imagine DSC used the sixties model, very little change. Paint a bit nicer.

Do you buy the DSC branded model kit? Or the cheaper one that’s been around a while?
Do you buy a new one at all?
You’re a games company, so you just use your existing asset? Or pay for a new license?
Do you use any one of a fair few licensed badges when you cosplay, or pay for the all new, twenty five percent different DSC pin?

Boom. There’s your twenty five percent. Cos otherwise, new licenses aren’t needed, new products compete with existing.

 

[Yistaan]

Imagine DSC used the sixties model, very little change. Paint a bit nicer.

Do you buy the DSC branded model kit? Or the cheaper one that’s been around a while?
Do you buy a new one at all?
You’re a games company, so you just use your existing asset? Or pay for a new license?
Do you use any one of a fair few licensed badges when you cosplay, or pay for the all new, twenty five percent different DSC pin?

Boom. There’s your twenty five percent. Cos otherwise, new licenses aren’t needed, new products compete with existing.

Man, this reminds me how I always wondered if I bought an NCC-1701 toy, do I get the TOS version or try to find/build a Motion Picture version? Which version would be the definitive toy to represent the Prime NCC-1701?

 

[ITDUDE]

Imagine DSC used the sixties model, very little change. Paint a bit nicer.

Do you buy the DSC branded model kit? Or the cheaper one that’s been around a while?
Do you buy a new one at all?
You’re a games company, so you just use your existing asset? Or pay for a new license?
Do you use any one of a fair few licensed badges when you cosplay, or pay for the all new, twenty five percent different DSC pin?

Boom. There’s your twenty five percent. Cos otherwise, new licenses aren’t needed, new products compete with existing.

Exactly, by changing the Enterprise (and everything else) 25% the games company CANNOT use their existing asset and sell it as an STD asset. This will force them to buy a new license from CBS.
If STD was visually not different from rest of Star Trek, the gaming company would most definitely not need to buy a new license since the asset has not changed. This not because CBS wouldn't try to create a new license to sell, it's that the wouldn't be able to. As a license holder, you have to prove that it's different enough (oh say 25%) to force a licensee to pay for a new license.

 

[BillJ]

Man, this reminds me how I always wondered if I bought an NCC-1701 toy, do I get the TOS version or try to find/build a Motion Picture version? Which version would be the definitive toy to represent the Prime NCC-1701?

Which one is hanging in the Smithsonian?

 

[Doc Mugatu]

My initial 2-two cents. Folks here say STD is officially part of the prime timeline, however, the design and feel of it seems more in tune with Paramount's Kelvin Universe.

 

[Doc Mugatu]

Merchandising doesn't stop at Enterprise. Anything sold as "Star Trek: Discovery" merchandise will require separate license.

Why?