Do we dwell on the negative?
- Thread starter Shatnertage
- Start date
For DS9, I'd say it's probably either the Ferengi episodes or the Mirror Universe. I've seen plenty of people (myself included) defend Season Seven and post-Sacrifice of Angels Dukat. I even defend the Mirror Universe episodes. Hardly anyone, however, defends the Ferengi episodes.
As for ENT, I try to focus on the positives - and there were a lot of them. But like has been said, maybe misery loves company.
Now, can we please talk about Precious Cargo?
There's no "like to" about it. The realities of life often forces us to.
I saw TATV only 2 months ago for the first time, so my need to vent my frustation is rather young....
Personally I think that it is great that there are like minded souls out there to share happiness or anger with.
Oh and "precious Cargo" was so TOS like. I can totally see Shatner in the same situation.
This.Have you seen the STXI forum recently? Or the "I like the new film better" thread in I-X? The most popular and successful Trek film in decades shows up, and over a year and a half later the same people are looping the same tired arguments about Delta Vega, beer breweries (oh right, that one migrated here for this cycle) and timelines.
With Enterprise it's "I imagined pre-TOS differently", "I hate the finale" and more nonsense about alternate timelines and canon violations.
In I-X it's "Nemesis/STV/Insurrection sucked"
Voyager's had a recent spate of premise/character bashing too.
Trekkies love to complain, and it's been this way for decades - take a look at Harve Bennett's aborted Starfleet Academy film from the early 90's, and all the bad press and fan flogging it recieved (even from the editors of the licensed comics!) as proof, or get an old Best of Trek book from Amazon and read an anti bumpy Klingon/anti new transporter effect/anti Enterprise refit tirade from 1979.
Nothing ever changes
I once came across a really old thread in connection to Enterprise when it was still Series V and there was the possibility that the series would take place in the 29th century, and people were ready to throw a shit fit over that.
Hey, Anna, good to see you here again! It's been a while.
Not from where I'm standing, hon. But I'm a Phloxist. Optimism!
Anyway, if that's the way the world looks outside your window, it doesn't have to be that way. If you build it, they will come.
And Ditto
(sorry, multi-quote didn't want to work)
Do we dwell on the negative? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't just mean TATV, although that's one I can't quite figure out. I do think we like to lovingly pick apart things because we're fans. Or at least we're fans of specific pieces of Star Trek and/or Enterprise.
Sorry for playing thread necromancer here, but I've been gone for a while and I missed this very interesting discussion while it was in-progress.
I think as fans, we love to hate. I'm also very active in Star Wars fandom, and you see these same kinds of threads/battles between Original Trilogy fans vs. Prequel Trilogy fans, etc.
And yes, this has been going on in Star Trek since...well, forever. I wasn't alive yet when it first aired...let's just say that I came around in time for resurrection through syndication. Yeah, there were some TOS episodes that were stinkers, and yeah, we talked about it, but it seemed to me that fans at the time preferred to shift their discussions in more positive directions, like exploring Vulcan mystique, imagining this scenario or that, or just talking about our favorite episodes.
Basically, when it was just TOS, imperfections were a little more easily overlooked, I think.
With each series in the franchise, I think fans became less and less tolerant. It started with the whole "My captain can beat up your captain" mindset I saw rampant at cons when TNG came on the scene. I dropped out of active fandom in the mid-90s, but a few years ago I rediscovered and fell in love with Enterprise, sought out communities in order to connect with other fans, and I have to be honest and say that I found the levels of complaining and negativity appalling. I was positively baffled that self-proclaimed "fans" would come to a fan site just to dwell on what they didn't like and shame other people who didn't feel the same way.
Yes, Enterprise has its flaws--all the series did--but it's been canceled for how long now? Time to get over it and accept it for what it was, maybe?
I got into Enterprise after cancellation, and it took me a while to realize that some of my difficulties were due to 'shipper wars I wasn't around for, had nothing to do with. I'm a TnT shipper, so I initially sought out TnT communities...I also happen to find Scott Bakula handsome...imagine my dismay at discovering I needed to keep that little detail in the closet, else face being shamed as a traitor to my 'ship. WTF?! I don't get the mentality that if you like one character/actor, you must hate the other, that being a fan of Trip or Archer has to be mutually exclusive.
This isn't to say that people aren't entitled to their opinions. I just see a lot of people not being nice about it, a lot of "OMG I hated that!!" instead of "OMG that was the best!!" People have forgotten about IDIC, or they don't care.
It reached a point where my BFFiF ("best friend forever in fandom") and I started our own community where the bottom line is, if you don't like the show or if you just came to complain, go home, because we're not looking to connect with haters. Negativity breeds negativity, and I for one have too much crap going on in my life to deal with it in an environment where I go to escape and have some fun.
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. LLAP, y'all.
I think as fans, we love to hate. I'm also very active in Star Wars fandom, and you see these same kinds of threads/battles between Original Trilogy fans vs. Prequel Trilogy fans, etc.
And yes, this has been going on in Star Trek since...well, forever. I wasn't alive yet when it first aired...let's just say that I came around in time for resurrection through syndication. Yeah, there were some TOS episodes that were stinkers, and yeah, we talked about it, but it seemed to me that fans at the time preferred to shift their discussions in more positive directions, like exploring Vulcan mystique, imagining this scenario or that, or just talking about our favorite episodes.
Basically, when it was just TOS, imperfections were a little more easily overlooked, I think.
With each series in the franchise, I think fans became less and less tolerant. It started with the whole "My captain can beat up your captain" mindset I saw rampant at cons when TNG came on the scene. I dropped out of active fandom in the mid-90s, but a few years ago I rediscovered and fell in love with Enterprise, sought out communities in order to connect with other fans, and I have to be honest and say that I found the levels of complaining and negativity appalling. I was positively baffled that self-proclaimed "fans" would come to a fan site just to dwell on what they didn't like and shame other people who didn't feel the same way.
Yes, Enterprise has its flaws--all the series did--but it's been canceled for how long now? Time to get over it and accept it for what it was, maybe?
I got into Enterprise after cancellation, and it took me a while to realize that some of my difficulties were due to 'shipper wars I wasn't around for, had nothing to do with. I'm a TnT shipper, so I initially sought out TnT communities...I also happen to find Scott Bakula handsome...imagine my dismay at discovering I needed to keep that little detail in the closet, else face being shamed as a traitor to my 'ship. WTF?! I don't get the mentality that if you like one character/actor, you must hate the other, that being a fan of Trip or Archer has to be mutually exclusive.
This isn't to say that people aren't entitled to their opinions. I just see a lot of people not being nice about it, a lot of "OMG I hated that!!" instead of "OMG that was the best!!" People have forgotten about IDIC, or they don't care.
It reached a point where my BFFiF ("best friend forever in fandom") and I started our own community where the bottom line is, if you don't like the show or if you just came to complain, go home, because we're not looking to connect with haters. Negativity breeds negativity, and I for one have too much crap going on in my life to deal with it in an environment where I go to escape and have some fun.
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. LLAP, y'all.
Nicely said Aquarius.
I think part of the problem is it's also a lot easier to write a long diatribe about the things we don't like than about the things we do like - after all most reaction to stories is an emotional reaction but just about every story has plot holes and the like if you think about it hard enough that you can use to justify why you hate it, whereas if you like something it can be harder to express.
I know I certainly prefer to dwell on the positives.
I think part of the problem is it's also a lot easier to write a long diatribe about the things we don't like than about the things we do like - after all most reaction to stories is an emotional reaction but just about every story has plot holes and the like if you think about it hard enough that you can use to justify why you hate it, whereas if you like something it can be harder to express.
I know I certainly prefer to dwell on the positives.
That's one of the problems with human nature in general, I'm afraid. People are quick to complain, but are stingy with the compliments. Just ask anyone who works in the service industry. Customers complain about the craziest, most obscure stuff sometimes--real but often imagined--but it's rare for someone to tell you that you've done a good job when you've gone above and beyond, rarer still for them to hunt down your boss and tell them.
So from that perspective, it's almost understandable, coming to an online community and seeing people grumble when an episode or character development hasn't met their expectations.
What I don't understand is the people who hammer away, ad nauseum, at the Same Old Crap about a show that's been out of production for six years. It's not a very productive way to spend one's time, especially since it doesn't fix anything, and obviously doesn't make anyone feel any better--even the complainers, since they often feel compelled to keep complaining.
It's one thing to have and express your opinion. It's quite another when people make it their personal mission to poop in everybody else's corn flakes, to make sure that if they're not having a good time, nobody else is, either. Some people are like a dog with a bone that they just won't drop. Imagine what they could accomplish if they channeled all that energy into something positive.
So from that perspective, it's almost understandable, coming to an online community and seeing people grumble when an episode or character development hasn't met their expectations.
What I don't understand is the people who hammer away, ad nauseum, at the Same Old Crap about a show that's been out of production for six years. It's not a very productive way to spend one's time, especially since it doesn't fix anything, and obviously doesn't make anyone feel any better--even the complainers, since they often feel compelled to keep complaining.
It's one thing to have and express your opinion. It's quite another when people make it their personal mission to poop in everybody else's corn flakes, to make sure that if they're not having a good time, nobody else is, either. Some people are like a dog with a bone that they just won't drop. Imagine what they could accomplish if they channeled all that energy into something positive.
Hehe, back home we have this saying, It doesn't matter if your cow dies, as long as your neighbor's cow dies too.
God only knows how true this is...
I'm watching Voyager for the first time, and over in that forum I've got a review/reaction thread. Some of the time I point out what I see as flaws, but I think mostly I'm looking at what I like. I'm sure to people who saw the show ten years ago everything I'm saying is old hat, but it's nice to be able to discuss it with them anyway.
And it's not like I don't enjoy pointing out flaws in Trek; it's just that I don't take what I perceive as shortcomings in the show as personally as some people I've seen. For me, it just means somebody had a bad day at work; they haven't ruined my childhood or committed a crime against humanity. And I don't bear the producers or writers or actors any personal animus for their creative decisions.
And it's not like I don't enjoy pointing out flaws in Trek; it's just that I don't take what I perceive as shortcomings in the show as personally as some people I've seen. For me, it just means somebody had a bad day at work; they haven't ruined my childhood or committed a crime against humanity. And I don't bear the producers or writers or actors any personal animus for their creative decisions.
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