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Do 24th century Federation (Earth) citizens have the right to bear arms?

Anyhoo - while I absolutely love shooting my ballistic slug-throwers, I would not be unhappy if someone developed a home defense zap gun that reliably knocked home intruders instantly unconscious. I don't wanna shoot anybody. But there is, as yet, nothing available to civilians that can send a villain to dreamland safely and instantly.
 
Guinan has a giant rifle behind the bar on the Enterprise. And she's a private citizen.

Picard has weapons stashed all over his chateau.

Kevin Uxbridge had a weapon, but it was non functioning. That was a Federation colony.

The colony on Tau Cygni V had armed citizens.

There are lots of examples of Federation citizens having their own weaponry. I think that answers the question.

I gather the most significant thing about every single one of those examples is that the guns never surprised anybody in the slightest.

The heroes never claimed they would be obligated to confiscate the illegal weapons. They never argued the weapons were in the wrong hands. They never as much as said "I'd wish you pointed that thing in some other direction". And as far as we can tell, the heroes are the ones enforcing UFP law and upholding UFP principles - indeed the only party in the entire fictional universe to do so, there being no competing civilian police in evidence.

Two counterexamples stand out in this respect: the Varon T pistol was outlawed because of its specific characteristics, and the presence of Type 8 phasers in Maquis hands was objectionable apparently both because those were guns of Starfleet origin, and because they were heavy ship-mounted weapons where light ones would have been expected. Nobody ever said an UFP spacecraft ought to be completely unarmed, though: the prohibition against arming civilian ships was a dead letter of the UE law in the 2150s only.

Would "specific characteristics" be relevant to the examples above? We never saw any of those weapons fired at city-leveling settings. And Starfleet knows quite well how to wage war on stun (indeed, we see in DSC how this would be far more effective than trying to down Klingons with the kill setting), so limiting the colonial weapons to that setting might serve the frontier needs well enough. Or at least kill would be of no greater help against the invaders that threatened Tau Cygni V or the Uxbridges.

Admittedly, though, Dr. Crater did manage to collapse an old ruin almost on top of Kirk with that pistol of his... Was that heavy stun? We know that stun packs a kinetic punch, such as when the Pakleds throw LaForge across the room with it. Sure, Crater threatens to kill the heroes - but he would manage that with stun all right (see above, or witness him almost killing Kirk with that collapsing rock arch!).

Timo Saloniemi
 
By the way I've always found phasers-fights somewhat unrealistic (something that even the authors of the shows have admitted). How is it unlikely that after the few first missed shots the bad guys don't set their phasers on "Earth-Shattering level"? I mean, how powerful hand phasers are is canonical.

The standard level 16 setting on a type 2 phaser could be used to vaporize tunnels through rock large enough to crawl through. (TNG: "Chain of Command, Part I") The level 16 wide-field setting could easily destroy half of a large building with a single shot. (TNG: "Frame of Mind")
 
...We only basically see this happen once, in "Future's End" where the VW Kleinbus that provided cover for our heroes suddenly disappears.

And our VOY heroes appear surprised by this! Sure, the intent was to show that the baddie was wielding a "future" gun with novel powers. But the removing of automobiles shouldn't have been among those.

Given how that one worked out, Earth-Shattering Level shouldn't be limited to villain use, either. If the bad guy hides behind a rock, remove the rock: this won't harm the bad guy in any way, apparently. Which is consistent with everything we have seen about the make-disappear setting of phasers so far.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Well, at least in Discovery they tried to depict phaser fights in a little different manner. In TNG they seemed your 50s western's average gunfight but with colored lines added...
 
Farmer on Post-Post-Apoc America has a 'Plasma Shotgun', and a Doctor had a Laser Pistol. So no Phasers in private hands, that we know of? Well, 7-of-9 and Picard had phasers around....

I would say yes, at least for heavy stuns. Or even medium stuns, enough to get an attacker off your back, disarm them, tie em up. Maybe Picard got a license/leeway for a normal phaser as he's been in Starfleet for seventy years, they know his record/character.

So civilians can get 'stunners', maybe? Heh. Assault Stunners. Tactical Stunners. Vintage-Retro design Stunners.
 
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The issue with using wide beam and high level power is the energy drain and potential over-heating of device that you're using.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

The Inverse Square Law should still apply if you choose to cover a ever wider beam at higher intensity levels.

That risks draining your batteries REALLY fast in a fire fight.
But still some stupid villain should have tried it anyway. And it's like saying that one shouldn't throw a grenade because there are a limited number of them.
 
By the way I've always found phasers-fights somewhat unrealistic (something that even the authors of the shows have admitted). How is it unlikely that after the few first missed shots the bad guys don't set their phasers on "Earth-Shattering level"? I mean, how powerful hand phasers are is canonical.
Personally I'm always bothered by the fact people frequently use the phasers to shoot one person at a time instead of using the wide beam to hit multiple targets simultaneously. It's especially silly in The Trouble with Edward Short Trek where they're shooting each tribble individually as opposed to using wide beam to just sweep a corridor full of tribbles.
 
Personally I'm always bothered by the fact people frequently use the phasers to shoot one person at a time instead of using the wide beam to hit multiple targets simultaneously. It's especially silly in The Trouble with Edward Short Trek where they're shooting each tribble individually as opposed to using wide beam to just sweep a corridor full of tribbles.
I agree.
 
Well maybe wide beam is like a water hose? A tight stream has stopping power but if you open the nozzle you may hit everyone but the power might be a very light stun?
Maybe the civilian phaser doesn't have a big battery to do anything fancy.. Maybe 20 shots at medium stun? ..
 
Well maybe wide beam is like a water hose? A tight stream has stopping power but if you open the nozzle you may hit everyone but the power might be a very light stun?
Maybe the civilian phaser doesn't have a big battery to do anything fancy.. Maybe 20 shots at medium stun? ..
Depends on the make and model of Phaser. I bet the Energy Emitters wasn't optimized for wide beam settings since single target beams are the norm.
 
Hi @Timo ! Could you help me with your encyclopedic knowledge of all Trek things? :biggrin:

I vaguely remember a phaser fight in TNG which was not too short and with a decent amount of participants on both sides (usually they are very short and/or with very few people). I believe it was set in an open field. Ring any bells, or it is just a figment of my imagination...? :sigh:

Thanks in advance!
 
I gather you refer to TNG "Gambit". In the first part of the two-parter, Riker's team engages in a planetside firefight with the mercenaries that are unknowingly employing Picard as part of their team. We get a lot of hiding-behind-rocks, firing-and-missing, failing-to-creatively-route-the-opponent action there. A yellowshirt gets gunned down without warning; Riker dodges a beam fired at him; the villains fire surprisingly little and the heroes essentially only twice or thrice; and the confused fight concludes with the bad guys beaming out with the unconscious Riker, his team failing to protect him in any way. Not their greatest hour.

The two-parter shows quite a few action scenes, including one aboard the hero ship, but at least the combat incompetence of the hero team there is part of a setup where they fool the villains. We never quite learn how these two-bit mercs managed to surprise the heroes so badly in the first fight; all we get is a vague reference to their ship being moderately stealthy.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Depends on the make and model of Phaser. I bet the Energy Emitters wasn't optimized for wide beam settings since single target beams are the norm.
Tell that to the crowds on Beta Three (The Return of The Archons) who got mass stunned. KIRK: Phasers on stun, wide field. Fire. But to be fair, this may be a special case since the party was surrounded with limited number of shooters covering all the firing arcs. In this case, Kirk and Spock (two shooters) were confronted by eight attackers. I believe this is the only example of "wide field". A good contrasting example is later in TOS Season 1 (Operation: Annihilate!) on Deneva where four charging guys were dropped by individual shots from four shooters instead of one or two shots on wide field.
 
VOY "Cathexis" also has the possessed Tuvok claim that his Phaser 2 is on "wide beam dispersal" and "set to kill", thus capable of handling the at least eight people confronting him. Previously, a setting that wasn't verbally described allowed him to gun down five adversaries with one stun shot. It differed slightly from the TOS beams in that it wasn't a simple narrow cone of fire, but a flatter, that is, transversely stretched light show, with a bit of detail into the glow (not a series of individual beams to every individual target, though).

Possibly wide fields are inefficient or unreliable chiefly because the beam can't be optimized for each target: the lithe old ladies in front may die from the setting that fails to stun the burly brutes masked by the bodies of the ladies. Single beams might involve feedback and realtime target analysis, which also explains the need for second-long bursts of fire where an older firearm does the job in milliseconds.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Possibly wide fields are inefficient or unreliable chiefly because the beam can't be optimized for each target: the lithe old ladies in front may die from the setting that fails to stun the burly brutes masked by the bodies of the ladies. Single beams might involve feedback and realtime target analysis, which also explains the need for second-long bursts of fire where an older firearm does the job in milliseconds.
I like this explanation, especially about feedback and target analysis. :techman:

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In my first mass stunning example above (@ 35 seconds), all four people drop in the first volley, then another four drop in the second volley.
 
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...It is sort of weird that only the guy facing Kirk's way ever obeys his command, even though McCoy and the other two secretly-Redshirts all visibly obey the Captain's command to set phasers on stun and wide field.

Okay, perhaps those Redshirts do fire, as we can't see their guns at the crucial moments. And perhaps McCoy is exempt thanks to ol' Hippocrates, even if he is prepared. But there aren't any stunned bodies evident on the street* after either of Kirk's command, only on the alley. I gather Kelley and the Generic Paskeys were directed to pretend to fire, as they freeze just the way the VFX artist would prefer, but the the decision was made not to draw the beams after all. Perhaps because the one from McCoy would have obscured the action? Or because firing directly at the audience was still a censorship no-no of sorts?

Timo Saloniemi

* Or is that black heap behind the middle woman supposed to be a fallen Body part? Why only one of 'em down and five still standing?
 
Okay, perhaps those Redshirts do fire, as we can't see their guns at the crucial moments. And perhaps McCoy is exempt thanks to ol' Hippocrates, even if he is prepared. But there aren't any stunned bodies evident on the street* after either of Kirk's command, only on the alley.
It is clear that only Kirk and Spock fire. The command seems to focused on creating an escape path down the alley. By clearing the alley, they are able to avoid the other crowds from street so no need to shoot those people.
 
By the way I've always found phasers-fights somewhat unrealistic (something that even the authors of the shows have admitted). How is it unlikely that after the few first missed shots the bad guys don't set their phasers on "Earth-Shattering level"? I mean, how powerful hand phasers are is canonical.

Personally I'm always bothered by the fact people frequently use the phasers to shoot one person at a time instead of using the wide beam to hit multiple targets simultaneously.

Phaser fights almost looks regressed, like back in the 19th century or something when they used musket rifles.

The Siege of Ar55 the enemy is charging and screaming towards the Fed troops and they're just firing one phaser shot at a time and eventually got overrun. When you're thinking, none of that had to happened. The enemy had no helmets, or armor and are just charging right at them. Something with a rapid fire setting, grenades, or a simple 21st century era assault rifle would have saved more lives than what they were doing.

You can't help but to see the silliness in it. It also looks like they downgraded the 'one of our phasers can take out an entire army' thing, or just ditched it all together.

On the OP, it looks like they prostitution and drug use is legal. Maybe it's a libertarian styled government. It's hard to put a finger on what type of government the Federation is.
 
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