Disney/LFL to slow down Star Wars releases

[Trekkin]

It’s the same property, that they benched and later revisited. So...how?

(Reaching would be pointing out that Deadpool is now technically a sequel...prequel...tie-in thing)

Plus, the tie-in cartoon was also made. Surprised some of its super fans didn’t jump me for forgetting it. They were pretty devoted back in the day.

 

[Turtletrekker]

This is Donald Trump-level reaching.

I was going to say "stretching more than Reed Richards", but that works too.

 

[fireproof78]

Huh? I don't get what you mean by "horribly negative film in light of the franchise". Also, how does it "dismantle Luke's abilities"?

It's true that IR(fictional)L, the Empire could have taken out the Falcon with ease, but it's not like the Falcon comes in guns blazing and takes down the fleet. They are always at least attempting to get away, so the story acknowledges that they don't stand a chance.

The original film shows the heroes struggling but winning the day, despite the losses (and they suffer heavy losses). Luke is demonstrated to be a willing hero and student and is put through torture after torture in ESB, from hypothermia, to amputation. Luke's innocence is completely dismantled and he doesn't get an answer until several months later after being lied to by his teacher. Even before ROTJ and the PT it is still very uncomfortable.

Certainly the Falcon is shown at a disadvantage, and we definitely see Han pulling all the tricks. But, it hits the point of absurdity when they are doing bombing runs with TIEs rather than bombarding the asteroids to shake it loose.

You guys have given up haven't you?

Nope

Just giving that argument as much as it deserves.

 

[HugeLobes]

The original film shows the heroes struggling but winning the day, despite the losses (and they suffer heavy losses). Luke is demonstrated to be a willing hero and student and is put through torture after torture in ESB, from hypothermia, to amputation. Luke's innocence is completely dismantled and he doesn't get an answer until several months later after being lied to by his teacher. Even before ROTJ and the PT it is still very uncomfortable.

Still not really getting the criticism here. I wouldn't say his innocence is 'completely dismantled' at all.

Certainly the Falcon is shown at a disadvantage, and we definitely see Han pulling all the tricks. But, it hits the point of absurdity when they are doing bombing runs with TIEs rather than bombarding the asteroids to shake it loose.

There are little logical flaws in all SW movies. This one seems relatively minor.

 

[Campe]

You guys have given up haven't you?

Nope.

Personally, I just tire of hearing the same “The Last Jedi totally ruined Star Wars! Solo failed because of it! Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy’s heads need to be on pikes!” overdramatic bullshit from people who don’t like the film. We’ve been through this dozens of times. A few thousand loud people on the internet who didn’t like a movie (for whatever reason) aren’t going to be the sole reason a franchise movie failed.

 

[HugeLobes]

Personally, I just tire of hearing the same “The Last Jedi totally ruined Star Wars! Solo failed because of it! Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy’s heads need to be on pikes!” overdramatic bullshit from people who don’t like the film. We’ve been through this dozens of times.

As someone who hates the prequels, I can't help finding that zealous hatred a little satisfying. BUUUUUUUUURNS, don't it?

Geeky schadenfreude aside, I just don't get why people keep thinking there needs to be more movies. We've all heard a million times how the OT placed traditional story elements (old wizard, damsel in distress etc) in a cool sci-fi setting and used elements of the monomyth and Jungian psychology for Luke's journey. All the best stuff in Star Wars got wrapped up in the OT. Actually, IMO one of the problems with ROTJ was that Han and Leia had pretty much completed their arcs in ESB and didn't have anything to do.

Somewhere along the way people stopped thinking of SW as three great films and started thinking of it as a franchise, and I really don't think it is one.

 

[Trekkin]

As someone who hates the prequels, I can't help finding that zealous hatred a little satisfying.

Why?

In the early 2000’s, hating the prequels was what all the cool kids did. You weren’t exactly facing an onslaught of opposition.

. BUUUUUUUUURNS, don't it?

Not really. At least, not until some trufan tries to burn down Rian Johnson’s house or something.

We’re not talking ‘no ever wants to wank poetic over Phantom of the Paradise’ levels of personal fandom injustice here.

 

[HugeLobes]

In the early 2000’s, hating the prequels was what all the cool kids did. You weren’t exactly facing an onslaught of opposition.

IDK, people generally seemed to like ROTS, and we were seeing more prequel love recently. Thing is, a lot of the criticism I was seeing against people who preferred the original trilogy was of the 'nostalgia goggles' kind, which could now just about be applied to the PT.

What I'm mainly talking about here is the exaggerated hatred shown against TLJ and people who think "feminazis killed Star Wars" or whatever.

 

[Trekkin]

Nah, I still don’t really get it.

It’s like me being glad that people rip into Star Trek Discovery, because I thought Enterprise was bad. My brain just does not compute it.

Then again, I generally don’t get mad about people liking things in general. Unless they list The Turner Diaries as their favourite novel or something, I’m probably not gonna care that much.

 

[Campe]

As someone who hates the prequels, I can't help finding that zealous hatred a little satisfying. BUUUUUUUUURNS, don't it?

I don't think I've ever once suggested I liked the prequels. So your trolling is unnecessary. There are aspects of the prequels I appreciate. But they are far from perfect movies. I also don't find the sequels to be amazing movies. They're fun. They're not perfect. But honestly, I don't think any Star Wars film is perfect. Frankly, while ANH is my favorite, because of the Jungian principles you mention later, but it has its flaws. I think ESB is overrated and only is held up because of the good parts of ROTJ, which is pretty much relegated to the last act of the movie. They are popcorn movies. I don't revisit them because I find them to be some sort of deep, philosophical journey. I revisit them because I have a good time watching them. I also appreciate what went on behind the scenes of the movies. If you look at my collection of Star Wars related stuff, the majority of it is behind-the-scenes and art books, along with some of the collected older comic-related stuff like the original Marvel series and the newspaper comics.

Geeky schadenfreude aside, I just don't get why people keep thinking there needs to be more movies. We've all heard a million times how the OT placed traditional story elements (old wizard, damsel in distress etc) in a cool sci-fi setting and used elements of the monomyth and Jungian psychology for Luke's journey. All the best stuff in Star Wars got wrapped up in the OT. Actually, IMO one of the problems with ROTJ was that Han and Leia had pretty much completed their arcs in ESB and didn't have anything to do.

I would stand to believe, yes, Han completed his arc in ESB. Leia's arc was flat-out abandoned. Initially they intended to have her become Queen of the Universe (or whatever) and be isolated from Luke and everyone else. That was relatively early on in the planning. Still, had they killed Han in the first part of ROTJ, Leia could have had a great arc showing the true burden of leadership on her as she has to lead the Rebels to take down the shield generator, at the same time, mourning the loss of her love, who she just got back. But, that's neither here nor there.

Somewhere along the way people stopped thinking of SW as three great films and started thinking of it as a franchise, and I really don't think it is one.

You would be incorrect. Its pretty much been a franchise since 1980.

 

[psCargile]

I think the general audience saw the trailer for Solo and said, "Pass." What did they care about Han Solo?

I thought it was a fair movie. It was like the live action Ghost in the Shell movie, good, but I already knew this material. If it wasn't an origin story that wanted to connect small details to the originals, maybe they would have come up with something more interesting that didn't just speak to fans.

 

[HugeLobes]

Okay guys, I'm sorry if this came off wrong. I wasn't directing those comments against people in this forum as much as that fairly toxic selection of fandom mentioned above. Please accept my apologies.

You would be incorrect. Its pretty much been a franchise since 1980.

Yeah, but I think there's a difference between a trilogy and a set of movies that can just go on almost indefinitely, like Bond or Marvel or even Trek. As much as I didn't like the prequels and never really saw a need for them, I get how the concept can be justified. But the idea of turning SW into a 'movie universe' just seems fundamentally flawed.

 

[psCargile]

And it's title is restrictive to the stories that can be told. War movies.

For children.

 

[Campe]

I think the general audience saw the trailer for Solo and said, "Pass." What did they care about Han Solo?

I thought it was a fair movie. It was like the live action Ghost in the Shell movie, good, but I already knew this material. If it wasn't an origin story that wanted to connect small details to the originals, maybe they would have come up with something more interesting that didn't just speak to fans.

I agree. And I think that's been my problem with both Rogue One and Solo. They're fine movies (even as I find Rogue One dour and completely unnecessary, it is well-crafted) but they're also unnecessary side stories telling the tales of things we kinda already know.

 

[HugeLobes]

I agree. And I think that's been my problem with both Rogue One and Solo. They're fine movies (even as I find Rogue One dour and completely unnecessary, it is well-crafted) but they're also unnecessary side stories telling the tales of things we kinda already know.

I think Rogue One is the only movie that kinda makes sense as a concept. My main problem with Solo is that it made the world feel smaller. I know Han is a smuggler who probably got in a few scrapes before meeting Luke and Obi-Wan, but I find it odd that he'd happen on two blockbuster movie style adventures in one lifetime. It's a little like seeing Chewbacca meet Yoda.

 

[fireproof78]

Still not really getting the criticism here. I wouldn't say his innocence is 'completely dismantled' at all.

He finds out that his mentor was lying to him and the villain he fears the most (hence the cave experience) is actually his father. His slow acceptance of Vader's statement is peppered with "Ben, why didn't you tell me?"

Yes, his innocence was lost. He discovered painful truths in the most difficult of ways.

There are little logical flaws in all SW movies. This one seems relatively minor.

To you. To me it makes the Empire appear relatively inept, especially after the show of force on Hoth. Apparently they need General Veers to command everything.

 

[HugeLobes]

He finds out that his mentor was lying to him and the villain he fears the most (hence the cave experience) is actually his father. His slow acceptance of Vader's statement is peppered with "Ben, why didn't you tell me?"

Yes, his innocence was lost. He discovered painful truths in the most difficult of ways.

I just don't really get why these are criticisms. Luke's fatherhood issues are basically what drive his character, and the cave encounter is hugely important. The whole Obi-Wan lie is a bit harsh, but I think they did a relatively good job covering it with Obi-Wan's explanation, especially since Vader wasn't supposed to be Luke's father at first.

To you. To me it makes the Empire appear relatively inept, especially after the show of force on Hoth. Apparently they need General Veers to command everything.

The Empire was always going to seem a little inept - legions of people have complained about the destuction of the first death star and the ease with which Luke, Han, and co navigate it. I think ESB does the best job of balancing a resourceful Empire against the need to have the good guys win, or at least survive.

I honestly think the most hilarious Empire mess-up in ESB is simply disabling the Falcon's hyperdrive instead of rendering it completely inoperational.

"Did your men deactivate the hyperdrive on the Millennium Falcon?"
"Yes, my Lord."
"Good. Let's hope they don't turn it back on."

 

[Campe]

The whole Obi-Wan lie is a bit harsh, but I think they did a relatively good job covering it with Obi-Wan's explanation, especially since Vader wasn't supposed to be Luke's father at first.

Eh, I thought it came off as one of those, "Yeah, if I squint and tilt my head slightly to the left, yeah, sure, Abe Vigoda looks like Jennifer Lawrence."

In other words: Reaching.

 

[HugeLobes]

Eh, I thought it came off as one of those, "Yeah, if I squint and tilt my head slightly to the left, yeah, sure, Abe Vigoda looks like Jennifer Lawrence."

In other words: Reaching.

Yeah, but what other choice did they have? Making Vader Luke's dad was a fantastic idea. I think they did the best they could under the circumstances, especially since they also do a fantastic job subtly changing Vader from pure antagonist into a kind of victim.

 

[Campe]

Yeah, but what other choice did they have?

<shrugs> Obi-Wan could have just admitted he lied to protect Luke, as opposed to covering it up with the "from a certain point of view"-ness.