Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

[Deano2099]

I figured the real innovation in the Prometheus design was in the software, not the hardware, so to speak.

Basically it lets one commander and bridge crew control a small fleet from one central bridge, directly, without going through intermediaries. Presumably the bridge of the primary module of the Prometheus is set up to provide easy access and control of the other two parts. The tactical station is set up to allow one tactical officer the ability to swiftly change battle plans for all three ships, the sensors set up to utilise triangulation or such from being able to scan from three different points, the helm allowing a pilot to guide the ships in formation and so forth.

Technically the same thing can be accomplished with a squad of three ships, each with their own crew, or a mothership with two smaller vessels. But the Prometheus is set up to do this more efficiently (and with fewer officers).

As for cloaking, the Mass Effect PC game deals with heat build up in ships quite heavily in it's universe and posits some ideas on how cloaks could work:

For most ships, the heat generated through standard operations is easily detectable against the absolute-zero background of space. The Normandy, however, is able to temporarily sink this heat within the hull. Combined with refrigeration of the exterior hull, the ship can travel undetected for hours, or drift passively for days of covert observation. This is not without risk. The stored heat must eventually be radiated, or it will build to levels capable of cooking the crew alive.

 

[rahullak]

^
Yes, I can see how the "software" part of the upgrade can be an advantage for the Prometheus.

The way the cloaking device appears to be used in the game you mentioned seems to be very similar to what I was suggesting about how cloaking devices should work. ie. re-absorption and storage of waste heat for later release.

And I suppose when it comes to detecting cloaks, it might be possible to "overload" the cloaked ship by targeting it with intense radiation (tachyons?) that it would no longer be able to absorb and release said radiation at sufficiently high rates to go undetected.

 

[Christopher]

I figured the real innovation in the Prometheus design was in the software, not the hardware, so to speak.

Basically it lets one commander and bridge crew control a small fleet from one central bridge, directly, without going through intermediaries. Presumably the bridge of the primary module of the Prometheus is set up to provide easy access and control of the other two parts. The tactical station is set up to allow one tactical officer the ability to swiftly change battle plans for all three ships, the sensors set up to utilise triangulation or such from being able to scan from three different points, the helm allowing a pilot to guide the ships in formation and so forth.

Technically the same thing can be accomplished with a squad of three ships, each with their own crew, or a mothership with two smaller vessels. But the Prometheus is set up to do this more efficiently (and with fewer officers).

Which still leaves the question, why not just have it be three separate ships to begin with? There is simply no reason to have it be one ship that breaks into three other than that the producers of a television show thought it would look cool. The same producers, mind you, who thought that having Voyager suffer a shortage of deuterium against all scientific logic was worth doing because they though it would be funny for the ship to "run out of gas."

As for cloaking, the Mass Effect PC game deals with heat build up in ships quite heavily in it's universe and posits some ideas on how cloaks could work:

Yes, from what I've read about it, Mass Effect is refreshingly informed about the thermodynamics of spacecraft. I wish more mass-media SF would be as conscientious.

 

[rahullak]

^

Ah good. So we will continue to have cloaking devices in the Trekverse.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I figured the real innovation in the Prometheus design was in the software, not the hardware, so to speak.

Basically it lets one commander and bridge crew control a small fleet from one central bridge, directly, without going through intermediaries. Presumably the bridge of the primary module of the Prometheus is set up to provide easy access and control of the other two parts. The tactical station is set up to allow one tactical officer the ability to swiftly change battle plans for all three ships, the sensors set up to utilise triangulation or such from being able to scan from three different points, the helm allowing a pilot to guide the ships in formation and so forth.

Technically the same thing can be accomplished with a squad of three ships, each with their own crew, or a mothership with two smaller vessels. But the Prometheus is set up to do this more efficiently (and with fewer officers).

Which still leaves the question, why not just have it be three separate ships to begin with?

Your assuming the Prometheus wasn't designed for instances where one ship is cut off from other ships and is outnumbered by the enemy or for missions that require three ships but having them be 3 in 1 makes them less conspicuous.

 

[Christopher]

Your assuming the Prometheus wasn't designed for instances where one ship is cut off from other ships and is outnumbered by the enemy or for missions that require three ships but having them be 3 in 1 makes them less conspicuous.

I've addressed both these points half a dozen times already in this thread. In the former case, I reject the assumption that three partial ships are somehow magically equal to three full-sized ships, for reasons I discussed weeks ago much earlier in this thread. As for the latter, for the umpteenth time, if you want to have three ships in one, the simple, sensible approach is to have one carrier ship with two other ships inside it, not this gimmicky, convoluted thing of having one ship that splits up like Voltron in reverse. Perhaps you should try reading the thread before you assume I haven't thought of something.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Your assuming the Prometheus wasn't designed for instances where one ship is cut off from other ships and is outnumbered by the enemy or for missions that require three ships but having them be 3 in 1 makes them less conspicuous.

I've addressed both these points half a dozen times already in this thread. In the former case, I reject the assumption that three partial ships are somehow magically equal to three full-sized ships, for reasons I discussed weeks ago much earlier in this thread. As for the latter, for the umpteenth time, if you want to have three ships in one, the simple, sensible approach is to have one carrier ship with two other ships inside it, not this gimmicky, convoluted thing of having one ship that splits up like Voltron in reverse. Perhaps you should try reading the thread before you assume I haven't thought of something.

Sorry, I must have missed those points. But you have to admit that a simple explanation for the Prometheus could be that somebody though it was a good ide no matter how impractical or absurd it is and dumped money or resources into it.

Still you know the Prometheus class could still be used just without the Multi Vector Assult thing I mean it's still a nice ship design.

Plus it's size and streamlined design might make it good for slipstream field tests.

 

[rahullak]

^
Also valid points.

 

[captcalhoun]

i like to think that Starfleet realised the MVA mode didn't work and it went into production as a bog-standard ship.

 

[Thestral]

Rather like Excelsiors and transwarp, eh?

 

[Marcus Porcius Cato]

I remain skeptical how the ST or Federation canafford such investment. Why not wait a few years until the rebuilding has begun to take shape?

 

[JB2005]

^ I suppose the argument is Starfleet needs to be sure the Borg has gone, to determine what they'll invest where...of course a QS probe would do the same job...

 

[Christopher]

Well, the most honest answer is that if we did books that were only about the Federation rebuilding, people wouldn't buy them. We need exploration and starship adventure.

Still, let's remember we're not talking about a single country here, but a power that spans hundreds of entire planets and their offworld colonies, stations, etc. The Federation's size and wealth (in terms of resources) are inconceivably vast, so even after it's relatively weakened and impoverished, it's still going to have far more resources at its disposal than every nation on Earth put together. By those standards, installing slipstream drive on nine ships is not that great an outlay of resources and effort. Compared to the work of rebuilding and relocating entire planets' worth of civilizations, a nine-ship fleet is an inconsequential line item.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, the most honest answer is that if we did books that were only about the Federation rebuilding, people wouldn't buy them.

If nuBSG has proven anything, it's that unrelenting bleakness, doom and darkness does sell.

We need exploration and starship adventure.

Yes, we do, don't we? So let's have some.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

i like to think that Starfleet realised the MVA mode didn't work and it went into production as a bog-standard ship.

Though I think the Prometheus MVA system might actually lead to the development of smaller saucer seperation capable ships which would be a good thing since it probably takes less time to cram everyone in the saucer section then to get to the escape pods.

Well, the most honest answer is that if we did books that were only about the Federation rebuilding, people wouldn't buy them.

If nuBSG has proven anything, it's that unrelenting bleakness, doom and darkness does sell.

We need exploration and starship adventure.

Yes, we do, don't we? So let's have some.

Just becuase the Federation's Superpower status is threatened doesn't mean its going to fall.

 

[Scout101]

i like to think that Starfleet realised the MVA mode didn't work and it went into production as a bog-standard ship.

only problem there is that it would very likely take more work to retrofit it as a single ship rather than to just scrap the project completely. Just think about how much of the ship is waste if you never intend to seperate: control areas, engines, weapons that are between sections, duplicate sickbays, etc.

Not quite like Excelsor, where ripping out the engines and slapping in the old ones would probably solve 85% of the problems. With the MVA design, so much of the initial planning and spaceframe is built around that gimmick...

Imagine they'd keep the prototype, as it's already built, but that would be it for the class. Can say they had already built extras, but you don't build 5 more before you do the testing of the concept and prototype...

 

[Christopher]

If nuBSG has proven anything, it's that unrelenting bleakness, doom and darkness does sell.

No, it's proven that well-written, well-made character-driven storytelling performed by a skilled cast sells. You're making the same mistake network executives always make -- assuming that if a show succeeds, it's because of the format or subject matter, and that therefore duplicating the format or subject matter will produce more hits. But what invariably happens is that the imitations bomb, because it wasn't the form or topic that brought success, it was the quality and originality of the execution.

Besides, how do you go from "books about the Federation rebuilding" to "unrelenting bleakness, doom and darkness?" Rebuilding isn't bleak. It's optimistic, by definition. It's about coming out of the darkness and making things better.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

i like to think that Starfleet realised the MVA mode didn't work

I'm not so sure it didn't work. Clearly it did - we've all seen it. But it may not be routinely deployed in battle as a standard maneuver. Perhaps it will only be used in emergencies, when a Prometheus-class vessel is unexpectedly cut off from the rest of its fleet, or is otherwise forced to operate alone.

And in a very real sense, it could save resources - if one crew can do what would normally take three (even if, as I said, this is only used in emergencies).

and it went into production as a bog-standard ship.

A what? A bog-standard ship...are we only now dealing with the problem of where the restrooms are?

 

[captcalhoun]

bog-standard means normal, not special.

 

[Tino]

But really, what's so special about the Prometheus's technology?

Actually nothing. It just looked cool back then. :-)

It was the first time for a Star Trek-episode to show a starship separating into three different units. But that's about it.

Personally, the exterior und interior design was a little too 23rd century to me.