Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Sxottlan, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. Tino

    Tino Captain Captain

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    That I doubt.

    If people are spread throughout the ship, they can reach the next escape pod say in twenty seconds? That could be a live-saver. ;-)

    If people have to get to the saucer section, that surely takes much longer. Not to mention transporters not working and/or turbo lifts without energy.
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^The idea behind the separating saucer in TNG was predicated on the notion that the saucer contained all the crew quarters and most of the work spaces to begin with, while the engineering hull contained mainly engineering, cargo, and such and was less populated. Also, the original idea was that the E-D had a crew consisting largely of civilian scientists and their families, who mostly lived and worked in the saucer. So despite what was shown for dramatic effect in Generations, realistically not that many people would've needed to get to the saucer from elsewhere in the event of a separation maneuver.

    Also, the saucer wasn't meant to be a "lifeboat." It was the primary section of the ship, a university town in space, and the secondary hull contained its main engines and defenses and was capable of breaking off to defend it. Ideally, the way it should've worked, the saucer should've been left behind at a starbase or other safe place before the battle section went off on a dangerous mission.
     
  3. Sxottlan

    Sxottlan Commodore Commodore

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    So just started reading Unworthy. The description of the Galen's bridge sure calls to mind the Olympic-Class bridge.
     
  4. Sxottlan

    Sxottlan Commodore Commodore

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    I guess I'll make this a running commentary with spoilers as the information comes in. Although I always assume everyone's read these books before I do.

    So as I continue to read, the Galen is not an Olympic-Class. More of a Mirandized Nova.

    *sigh* Oh well. :( The AGT design was very sensible for a hospital ship imho. You could put the IC, ED and recovery wards deep in the sphere for protection against hull breach or attack.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2009
  5. EmperorKalan

    EmperorKalan Commander Red Shirt

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    Adding new information from Unworthy (spoilers for plot points, but not for ship specs: You've been warned). Recalling SicOne's list:

    Intrepid-class modified with slipstream drive.

    The Galen is a prototype ship designed by The Doctor and Louis Zimmerman (and presumably a team of regular Starfleet ship architects). It is described as "a cross between a Nova- and Miranda-class science vessel." The main section has six decks, has a wide triangular shape, and the nacelles are "mounted on short pylons extending directly from the drive section."

    Decks 5 and 6 are mostly devoted to two emergency wards that are typically powered down when not in use.

    Crew complement is 30, supplemented by medical, security, engineering (and command?) holographic personnel.

    Galen's bridge consists of the captain's center seat, a single-place conn station in front of it, and tactical, ops, and science stations arranged to the captain's rear. (Which is much like the Pasteur's bridge seen in AGT, but the Pasteur had five stations to the captain's rear rather than the Galen's three. See the bridge illustration gallery at http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org)


    If there was information on the class of Achilles and Demeter, I must have missed it. So, class still unknown.

    And finally...
    B'Elanna's slipstream-capable shuttle, the Home Free, which is big enough to live on (if cramped) but small enough to be taken aboard Voyager. With Tom and B'Elanna staying with the fleet and its original purpose essentially done, this ship may be refitted to other uses.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Is the USS Galen named after Richard Galen, Picard's former archaeology prof?
     
  7. EmperorKalan

    EmperorKalan Commander Red Shirt

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    More likely the Greek physician/philosopher
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Since it's a medical ship, it's undoubtedly named after the Greek physician rather than an archaeologist.
     
  9. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As a Greek, I'm flattered to get a full third of the fleet named after people/characters from our past, but would it have killed them to throw in a single alien name? ...The T'Pau, the Gorkon, the Marvin?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
  10. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Regarding the Prometheus ...

    For one thing, we have 0 proof to claim that when separated, the 3 sections are any weaker compared to when the ship is connected.

    If the ship has 3 warp cores that pump out equal amount of power, the ship won't be outputting 3x more compared to when separated.
    The shields/weapons/systems have a set maximized power output.
    Each warp core is likely more than enough to supplement those needs and you have 1 powerful ship that splits into 3 equally powerful (but smaller) vessels.

    Furthermore, the 3 warp cores could be there to provide the Prometheus with a maximum warp velocity that outpaces anything in the fleet and hold the SIF at those speeds.

    I do not think the MVAM failed in any capacity.
    It was able to aid the Prometheus to disable a Nebula class ship at warp speeds.
    The Nebula was caught off guard since the other 2 Prometheus pieces just went to the aft sides of the Nebula and fried it.

    It's even further supplemented that the Prometheus actually thrives in battle when separated compared to connected when the Romulans attacked and a Warbird was destroyed.

    For combat purposes, the Prometheus will perform much better when separated, and when connected, it can fill out other duties.
    Also in separation mode, it attacks targets from numerous directions instead of just one.
    I think it's main strong points lie in the fact that it doesn't have high crew requirements, and is able to achieve better results in combat (also I don't think the ship is in any danger when separating since the ship sections would still be under one shield, and then other parts of the grid would kick in to automatically protect them).

    It's also packed with a wealth of upgraded hardware and automation.
    Far fewer people are needed to run the ship or the separated parts.

    Also, I heard countless times how the people were dissatisfied with the prospect the Galaxy class saucer was incapable of Warp flight ... making it essentially stranded in deep space in case the battle section gets destroyed.

    In this particular situation though, the Prometheus has warp nacelles on each of the section, making it more than capable to go to warp and reach a place where it can hail for support if such a dreaded scenario happens, whereas Galaxy class saucer is essentially stranded.
     
  11. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    That's probably false. Just think about it. 3 times the power production, means more power to go around. Shields should be able to withstand a LOT more, as you can keep full power to them longer. Phaser power would be fairly unlimited, as you can send the full power of a warp core into each burst, and still have a pair available for shields, SIF, manuevering, etc. Can't see how there WOULDN'T be more power available as one big ship.


    Phasers MIGHT have that max power, but do you have anything that shows that max power = less than 1 full warp core? Even if that IS true, you just double up on the phaser strips (and associated power management systems), and you can make the ship look like a phaser porcupine! And since they are always rerouting power to shields, they'd have more to spare before they had to do that.

    Why is the Defiant such a little super-ship (aside from plot holes and it being a Hero ship)? Too big a warp core, far more power than the size/class should need.


    The "equally" part isn't right, because if you break it into 3 parts, they're no longer equal to the original.

    Don't believe warp power, especially redundancy, has ever been tied to max velocity. More to do with warp geometry, shape of the ship, SIF, etc. Max power may sustain the warp speed longer, but shouldn't have a lot to do with going much faster.

    The Nebula likely considered it a "friendly" and was pulling its punches. And the example with the Romulans is what has been talked about. This is a gimmick that will/should work once, and then it's pointless. If the Romulans know that ships with that profile can break into 3, will they be shocked next time? Not so much. And how would the firepower have changed if the Romulans were facing 3 Defiants instead? Same result, really, just no surprise.

    Again, depends on making a shaky claim at the beginning that the 3 pieces are stronger than the 1 big piece, and hoping the enemy doesn't know about the MVAM.

    3 Defiants would accomplish the same thing.


    Can't speak to what the crew requirements would be, as we've never seen it really staffed. Would think you'd need to go heavier than normal on command, tactical, and pilots, though, as when you split up, you'd want able people on all 3 parts.

    Once they split and seperate, they'd be safe, but there has to be more danger when they are starting it. The shields of the overall ship are geared for the big ship, when you start to seperate, that shield has to expand, which makes it bigger but weaker. None of the parts are going to dodge a shot right then, either, they'd have to maintain the course for a few seconds, making them sitting ducks.

    Can't see how that's all true. More automated, yes, but that was more a function of the plot than the ship. We've seen all KINDS of ships that require big crews piloted by single people, or small groups. Scotty had the original Enterprise up and running with a crew of 5 or so, and that normally requires more than that many people down in phaser control to just fire the phasers. Ent-D and VOY have also been flown solo, or just about empty.

    You also introduce a FAR bigger problem here: if each portion runs the risk of being stranded, you have to triple-up on the essentials. 3 bridges, (plus Aux control for each section in case of damage to the bridge), 3 sickbays, 3 engineerings, as well as 3 sets of crew able to run each ship individually. You can say that each of the 3 shifts takes a section, but if you lose the ability to recombine, you've now only got enough crew for a single shift, and you're screwed.

    True, that wasn't well thought out. Then again, it would only be used as a lifeboat, so maybe it's better than nothing, or you use the drive section to buy enough time to run/hide. The INTENT was likely to leave it behind before you start the dangerous mission, but most of the time, you don't know it's dangerous until too late.

    True, if you're willing to leave a section as the lifeboat. The saucer section looked to be the least powerful, with a tiny nacelle, but you'd also be leaving behind the main bridge, probably main sickbay, etc. as well as reducing the benefit of your MVAM. Probably worth it if shit happens, but a consideration.

    Also, as mentioned, what happens if the top section runs and hides, but the middle section is destroyed in battle? Assuming you aren't next door to a starbase, you're screwed. top and bottom don't line up to connect, and if the bridge crew headed below to man a battle section, they likely stopped at the middle section, being closest. That being the case, it would probably be designed to be the most powerful of the group as well.

    You've now got two tiny ships that can't reconnect, AND you're very likely missing a good chunk of your command crew. Not a plesant scenario. Even if the middle section was only damaged instead of destroyed, could be easy to cause enough damage to prevent reconnection, which opens up plenty of problems.


    Just seems like the ship would be better off as one super-powerful ship, if that's the result of all the warp cores. MVAM means they have to waste space and personnel tripling up redundant systems, and the space for 6 bridges could have been used for other systems.
     
  12. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Then why exactly star-ships don't come equipped with 2 or 4 warp cores as a standard since it would be better?

    Regarding the shields ... only that argument could hold in terms of a prolonged conflict, but then again, the ship in separated mode would have identical shield capabilities while the only difference would be in terms of not being able to pump the extra power into them.
    And being a pinnacle of Federation technology, the shields would likely be Sovereign type, if not better.

    You wouldn't be able to pump more power out of the phasers separated or connected.
    The differential in this case is that you get more strips capable of firing equal output and delivering more damage in less time.
    As for the Defiant ... ok, so it has a large warp core and more power than it can actually use effectively ... that could also translate into an engineering failure because you have all that power at your disposal and you can't use it properly.

    'Equal' in terms of firepower, not necessarily everything else.
    Shields could suffer a little due to this, but hardly enough to put them in a critical jeopardy since the hardware in each section is already state of the art.

    Valid arguments, but you also need something to power all those systems ... and on numerous occasions we witnessed ships consuming more power the higher warp velocities they hit.

    If you re-watch the episode, you will see the Nebula was firing at the Prometheus the moment it was in firing range (this was before the Prometheus activated it's MVAM) and therefore was NOT considering it friendly.
    Also, SF likely briefed the pursuing ship of the Prometheus capabilities so they can be better prepared ... which of course failed.

    The Romulans who stole the ship already knew about it's capabilities, as did the Warbirds it came in contact with.
    The Romulans knew quite well what to expect, and they still failed.

    If the enemy knows about the MVAM, that doesn't necessarily put the Prometheus at a disadvantage (and the Prommie defeated both the Nebula class and a Warbird in MVAM).

    That's speculation of course since the ships in question lack phaser strips coverage and by that time period, phaser strips were likely on the same if not higher power output.
    That, and the Defiants were not made for deep space tactical assignments, whereas the Prometheus was.

    No ... as demonstrated, the MVAM coordinates with the main section in combat via the computer.
    Only 10 people in the entire SF were originally trained to operate the ship.
    I would hypothesize the ship would likely need a bit more, but I suspect it would be able to handle fine with 10 people in each section, equating to 30 people on the entire ship, and other sections wouldn't have to be commanded by high ranking officers.

    And I suppose that a different way of protecting the sections while in separation mode is out of the question?
    For example, instead of expanding the shields you could also just retain skin type shields on each section and activate the shield grid in other sections the moment each part disengages from the other.

    You are forgetting that ships are capable of repairing/maintaining themselves. Of course this was introduced in TNG with the Galaxy class, and then later dropped for plot reasons.
    In any event, the ship is highly automated which likely equates to ability to repair/maintain itself.
    Obviously, some repairs will needed to be made by the crew, but it will hardly need as many people to do the job.

    Given the level of automation and even with 10 people in each section, you can divide that to 2 or 3 shifts (unless the ship is continuously threatened ... in that particular case, no one will be getting too much sleep anyway).

    Which is likely why SF introduced warp capability in all Prometheus sections, to avoid being stranded.
    At least like this you have some kind of option of going back.

    And who is to say the remaining sections of the ship don't have the extra facilities such as the sickbay, another battle-bridge, etc. ?
    There are holo-emmitters throughout the entire Prometheus, so one would think that it could also have as many EMH's as needed for each section.

    Since the vessel is designed for deep space tactical assignments, it's likely they'd make it just fine even if one of the sections is destroyed.
    And I think that SF would think a bit better than to arm one of the sections more heavily compared to the others.
    It's just as likely the phaser coverage and torpedo capabilities are very close to being the same (the Galaxy also has a concealed phaser strip and a torpedo tube for the saucer section when fully connected ... isn't is a same waste for that ship as well?)

    Yawn ... same can be said for any other ship that can separate ... only they won't have the ability to go to Warp speed or tow the section that was damaged under a warp field to the repair facility.
    As for the command crew ... adapt.

    Oh I agree that there are numerous good arguments against the MVAM being there ... but at the same time, it can serve as a good element of surprise in some cases (but that's hardly the only reason behind the MVAM being usable)
    Especially if SF only wants to send 1 ship to do the job instead of 3 and much more manpower.
    In this instance, the Prometheus could do better, and besides, I would surmise that the Prometheus only engages it's MVAM mode when outnumbered in battle.

    If the ship is designed for deep space tactical assignments, giving it the ability to separate into mobile weapon platforms can increase it's survivability since it would allow one or 2 sections to serve as a decoy while the third one pummels the enemy from a point that is vulnerable.
    Or all 3 sections fire from 3 different directions at a singular target.
    Or 3 ships vs 3 ships.
    In some cases, it can level the playing field.
     
  13. CaptainDonovin

    CaptainDonovin Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There was a U.S.S. Achilles from some game years back that was the lead ship of it's class. I know it wasn't mentioned in any episodes but since the books aren't canon anyway it worked for me.
     
  14. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Dominion War, I beleive. It's also a selectable ship class in Legacy, I think (either that, or one of the mods that was built to try and fix that POS game, can't recall).

    either way, kinda neat ship, sort of a flattened Voyager...
     
  15. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I recall reading that that was intentional. The original plans were for the Achilles to be an Intrepid Class starship, but S&S only had rights to use ships commonly featured on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and couldn't get permission to use the Intrepid.
     
  16. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Eh, it looked cool enough on its own
     
  17. Icemizer

    Icemizer Commodore Commodore

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    It will be really awesome when all the ships form together to make a giant robot!!!
     
  18. CaptainDonovin

    CaptainDonovin Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^ That will be the next big Paramount movie, Star Trek: Transformers.
     
  19. brcarthey

    brcarthey Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    i think you mean star trek: voltron
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Except that Transformers is a Paramount franchise and the scripts are by Kurtzman & Orci, so that's the obvious pairing. And yes, the Transformers do have robots that combine out of smaller robots.