bringing back the whole issue of was Enterprise-D able to get through the space dock doors
Discovery Size Argument™ thread
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
I still don't understand why everyone's talking about changing the sizes of the old ships. The Discoprise being 480m doesn't change the size of the old Enterprise at all. They're different ships, with different designs and despite CBS' claims, existing in different versions of the universe.
We are playing along with the lie that this is the same universe.
i thought "all would be revealed" about the inconsistencies in season 2 and beyond. i mean, that's what we want out of a star trek show right? explanations for discontinuities in production design, not exciting, new storytelling.
And yet, according to a scale image in another thread, that only makes the Discoprise less than 50m longer than the TOS connie.
We keep being told you can’t do exciting new storytelling in Trek. Unless you reboot it. Where you still do t get exciting new storytelling, unless they reboot it so much it isn’t trek anymore. Or they get Simon Pegg to write it, because man does his research. But generally not.
So they might as well try and explain things and find a story that way.
This may or may not be sarcasm.
this should be my signature.
Again, so what? They threw out the old Enterprise design and came up with a replacement which they scaled to fit their original creations from their show.
It's like saying the Disco D7's size somehow affects the classic version. It doesn't. They're completely different. Or that Henry Cavill's height retroactively affects Christopher Reeve's. Or that TOS Pike and Spock wore metal badges and not patches because that's what they wear on the Discoprise.
New ship. New rules.
I believe if you take a look at the length of the Eaglemoss Enterprise model from Star Trek Discovery, see what the scale is for it, then work out the 1:1 size, it came out to about 480m.
So the ship is scaled up compared to the original. And when Doug Drexler designed the MSD for the TOS Defiant in "A Mirror Darkly", to get the sets to fit the deckplans, and scaled it up to about 456m
Or time is more flexible than the petty creatures that inhabit it.
That is what Daniel said
I need to make a correction. It is the Polar Lights dimensions that have been released, at 1:1000 scale, 18.9 inches becomes 480.06 meters or 1,575 feet.
The discussion about whether you consider this Prime or not is, well a different discussion lol
300 meter Enterprise(TMP)
450 meter Enterprise (TMP)
If you account for the fact that the travel pod has to have some buffer ring around the docking port, the 450m becomes more realistic. Can we overlay the actual shot from TMP/TWOK to get a sense of the scale? Yes, I see the face in the window. But maybe, as the second image indicates, that's a rather large alien (or a guy with a really, really big head!).
The buffer ring is actually marked out in the docking ports: it's the area within which those solid red circles fall, just outboard of the thin ring that has the floor flat evident at the bottom. Matching the actual thickness of the travel pod mod, not-so-amazingly enough, considering how insane amount of effort the producers put into the details of this movie.
I have little trouble pairing the NCC-1701 and NCC-1031 as seen above, in terms of porthole rows and the like. Making the NCC-1227 that small takes some doing, though, in the same terms. But I guess it can be done. Much like one can argue away the porthole rows on the TOS ship saucer to support a specific scale.
Timo Saloniemi
I have little trouble pairing the NCC-1701 and NCC-1031 as seen above, in terms of porthole rows and the like. Making the NCC-1227 that small takes some doing, though, in the same terms. But I guess it can be done. Much like one can argue away the porthole rows on the TOS ship saucer to support a specific scale.
Timo Saloniemi
Edit: The docking port is about 8.15ft/2.5m in diameter on a 1,000ft/305m ship, or a little over 12ft/3.7m on a 1,476ft/450m ship
Edit again(sorry):
The inner entrance to the pod(the open space that a person walks through) is 7ft in diameter
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300 meter Enterprise(TMP)
450 meter Enterprise (TMP)
IMO within the margin of error. Like, single vfx shots not fitting with their respective sizes, or generally relative sizes towards each other (Does the Delta Flyer fit into Voyager's shuttlebay?) have always been an issue. It is entertainment after all. What counts is that it has to fit overall.
What about this shot for example:
It is weird (and probably a result of the f*d up too small size of the ship being used for the CGI model). Because - again - it's obvious the saucer is two decks high, the two-stores high recreation deck is given an exact position (in the very same movie!) in the back of the saucer, and the saucer has two levels of windows around.
And yet, the human figurines are way off scale. The saucer is about exactly twice as high as the people, making a two-deck saucer impossible, and a one-deck saucer ridiculous (and ALSO impossible, because of the other scenes in the movie). Really, the only explanation is the ship itself is bigger, and everytime they put humans next to it it becomes painfully obvious they underscaled the raw size.
This isn't even remotely a new problem btw. If you look at the Star Wars movies, the model of the Millenium Falcon they put on stage is always waaay to small to have a full cockpit in it (when it's parked on Tatooine or Hoth), it's much crasser "bigger on the inside". Or on Star Trek, when they show us the shuttlecrafts, the internal sets were always bigger than the external model the actors walked into.
That's the thing with fiction. They can only pretend. In this way, the truth must be assumed to be the "realistic" sizes where everything fits, and the vfx as always "close enough" to give us a sense of scale, but not the absolute truth.
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