Discovery Size Argument™ thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by King Daniel Beyond, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Commodore Commodore

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    NOPE, never was.
    I believe you're thinking of the ARBORETUM Windows on the lower Secondary Hull.

    :cool:
     
  2. Longinus

    Longinus Commodore Commodore

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    The floor of the rec deck is completely changed. It is not really the same space. He flat out says he had to make several features smaller than they were on the film. If you need to make stuff smaller and change their shape radically to make them fit, then they do not really fit! And building all windows on a deck so that you can look at them while sitting down is no plausible. If we would just look at the evidence on the screen and would not have preconceived knowledge of 305 metre figure, no one would conclude that the ship is that size.
     
  3. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Commodore Commodore

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    Watch his third video.
    Around the 17:00 mark he explains that he discovered that the VR Program he is using (Unreal) apparently reduces everything in size by about 10%.
    Once he corrected for that everything fits better with the scale he is using.
    :techman:
     
  4. Longinus

    Longinus Commodore Commodore

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    It still doesn't even remotely fit. The rec deck floor is all wrong, the back wall is too low, the viewscreen is way too small, and the deck arrangement doesn't work.
     
  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I first noticed it when Star Trek Online revamped their Connie Refit model.Surprised me as well.
     
  6. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Ah! The famous USS Enterprise, starship class, Captained by James R. Kirk, on a mission from UESPA, travelling with time warp factor 5. But I'm sure the length annotation has to be treated as absolutely, uber-canon, trumping every single evidence that appeared on screen once the production of the show actually started.
     
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  7. Takeru

    Takeru Space Police Fleet Captain

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    You say that as if it's proof, but it's not. Behind the scenes info is often inaccurate. Plus Matt Jeffries is not the designer of the Enterprise, he designed the shape, the Enterprise as a whole was a collaborative effort between him, the model builders, set designers, writers etc., all of this has to be taken into account.
    As numerous people have said, the ship as seen on screen cannot be around 300 meters, it has to be longer. On screen evidence trumps numbers from pre production which were never canon to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  8. Longinus

    Longinus Commodore Commodore

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    Yep. Jefferies designed the ship in that scale, and note how the original plans (and the Cage version, I think) have only one row of windows on the saucer rim, on the upper part of the area. But then another row of windows got added under them, and at that point the original scale was fucked.
     
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  9. Groppler Zorn

    Groppler Zorn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    On a craft from within which you can see space for 360 degrees? It must have just seemed plausible when the guy said it as opposed to it being actually plausible for a vessel that operates in an environment with no horizon or relative direction. I wonder how the astronauts get on aboard the space station with all their downward pointing windows. Must drive them mad with the implausibility of it all.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or the Captain's name isn't James R. Kirk ;)
     
  11. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Commodore Commodore

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    Ahhh yes...

    James R Kirk
    ...

    Just another occasion when God-Mitchell was fuckin' with his ol' buddy's mind.

    Imagine knowing just before you die, that you'll be buried forever under a grave marker with an error in it.
    <mind blown>
    :biggrin:
     
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  12. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC the Star Trek Continues fan series went with that excuse.
     
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  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Riberius. You know it.
     
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  14. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Indeed! In this drawing (<300m) the Enterprise still has only a one-deck sized saucer! I didn't even noticed...

    Yeah, it's not a secret they scaled up the ship several times during early production, before filming. Some of the very first drafts have the (then still more UFO-shaped) Enterprise with only a crew of ~20 to 40 men.
     
  15. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Commodore

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    Espers are buttheads, but points for style on that one, for Mitchell.
     
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  16. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Alright, agree to disagree.
    From my point of view.
    I build plastic models. I've build every amt/polar lights/mobius kit that has come down the pike.
    I understand that on some ship kits, the scale is ??? ( Defiant, Bird of Prey) However, with the Enterprises. They've been at a constant scale. I build in 1000 scale and 2500. In 2500 Amt has a ship set of all the Enterprises Nx - E all in there aceepted scales. Looks quite nice put together. Now with the Discoprise, at 480 meters .. When i put that in at 2500, its longer than the Excelsior, so basically hoses the whole ship set. Im complaining is in that, for litteraly Decades, almost from the very begining with the first TOS kit in the 60's. The ship has been at 289 m. That ship link picture I put up is Matt's answer to AMT's question of scale.. Back in the 60's!
    So to me, its inconvient, and totally pointless in that the increase in size does nothing for the plot, and fly's in the face of nearly 50 years of the ship being "This Size" where it may not be "cannon" as in its never been said on TV. There are plenty of behind the scense evidence and size charts to show that, the people who made the show considereed it 289m.

    So, to summerize. To me, Discovery, Shinzou, any other ship you want to make big, go ahead, it clashes with my TOS sensabilty, but I'm not in charge, and so, don't really care to much. Where I do care is them increaseing the size of the Enterprise, just because. Most people don't care, and I only care because I want my plastic fleet to make sense. It can look like it does, don't care that they "redesigned" it. Just keep the size.
     
  17. XCV330

    XCV330 Commodore Commodore

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    I understand why it would be an annoyance, especially with that much model building and a keen idea for scale as it was understood.

    I always thought those scales were too small, personally, so the change doesn't bother me. Another problem is that the Connies are supposed to be top of the line first rate heavy cruises. If that's the case most of the other ships of starfleet that are combat capable, anyway, would seem to me to need to be a little smaller at least.

    There's only so far you can slim down these ships and have them be reasonable starfleet ships. Basically they got it right with Miranda years ago, but that means Enterprise needs to be scaled up with this plethora of ships shown since Binary Stars, from a visual point of view. Again, just my opinion. I personally would have been happy to see a motley gaggle of gigantic 800 person crew Einsteins and tiny old Daedaluses duking it out with the Klingons in that scene, with a handful of Shepard class thrown in, but that wasn't going to happen.
     
  18. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Except it doesn't work.
     
  19. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Easy to explain. Kirk and rest of the crew were high on `shrooms. There is your tie-in into STD :D
     
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  20. Longinus

    Longinus Commodore Commodore

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    Except Excelsior really needs to be about 600 metres for the details to make sense...

    http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/excelsior-size.htm