Discovery at STLV. The massive info dump
- Thread starter RAMA
- Start date
As is clearly evidenced by his...
...22nd century Starfleet ships for Enterprise (1),
...22nd century Starfleet ships for Enterprise (2),
...24th century Starfleet ships for Star Trek Online,
...24th century Starfleet ship for a Star Trek fan group,
...23rd century Starfleet ship for Discovery.
The guy doesn't throw anything away! No regard for design tradition and franchise era aesthetics whatsoever. Still, at least the Shenzhou does looks like a generic Starfleet vessel, unlike those "Klingon" Warhammer 40,000 warships.
They all look different enough to me, heck the 22nd century ships have round nacelles
Good grief.. It's a reimagining. The nacelles don't have to look the same...
The Valiant/Defiant started out as a "beefed-up" Starfleet runabout. It's final design bears some small resemblance to the Cardassian Hideki-class fighter. All contemporary 2370s ships.
The Enterprise-D started out as a concept Andy Probert did for a future Enterprise as he envisioned it. Unlike the Mawson/Shenzhou it was redesigned and changed completely to fit the new era of TNG. The final ship didn't look anything like what we had seen before.
You're confusing the initial concept with the final design. Jim Martin's design was based on a freighter he'd done for season two (possibly for The Maquis). Link
The point is, plenty of Trek ships have began as something else and been refined later as others.
Rick Sternbach did a concept for the Defiant which was later reused as Equinox on Voyager for example.
Again they're contemporary era ships! They didn't take TNG era ships and shoehorned them into TOS-R virtually unchanged! Even the much-maligned Akiraprise was extensively redesigned to better fit ENT!
The problem isn't reusing old design ideas, the actual shape of the ship is the smallest issue. The problem is the design aesthetics. Keep in mind the only Starfleet ship of Eaves that has made it onscreen up till now is the Enterprise E, everything else are alien ships, (unless he did some minor Earth Starfleet ships I'm unaware of). The problem is that all of his Starfleet ships look like contemporaries of the Enterprise E, anchoring them in the 24th Century. That dimensional hull paneling of his is too recognizable. If you smoothed out his designs, I think they would be fine. Most of the visual cues that we use to date ships are in the detailing.
Not Starfleet, but he did design the Earth civilian Y-Class freighter.
He helped design the 'Intrepid-Type', 'Warp Delta' and the Sarajevo
He also designed the Scout Ship from Insurrection.
Well, sorry, but TNG DID use a plethora of 23rd Century ship models from the TOS feature films (understandable as they're nice models and made the show look like it had a larger production budget than it did) - and sorry when you have lines from STIII:TSFS of:
Admiral: "The Enterprise is 20 years old. We feel feel her day is over..."
(and yes, said film writer made a mistake there as the ship was closer to 40 years when the character said that...)
But my point:
Suddenly we have Miranda, Oberon and Excelsior Class ships in service 80+ years in the 24th century era Starfleet and no one bats an eye?
I'm not sure I buy into the "contemporary era" and "TOS era." The only timeline of design we should take into consideration is our own real world.
When it comes to Discovery's design, there's a very fine line between nostalgia and homage. Tweaking TOS designs - such as just adding texture to the hull - is nostalgia. Fan films are build on that vibe. Anniversary specials such are built on that vibe. Full scale high budget TV productions shouldn't be.
Design elements like the ships change because we change.
Even keeping within 'canon' logic, within the realm of TNG era ships - how awkward does it look having the Nebula next to the same era Akira in First Contact? If those two vastly different ships can exist in the same timeline and era (presumably around the same time of build) then there's absolutely no reason the 23rd century can't have the same diversity.
Modern day Naval ships are designed for a roughly 40-50 year lifetime. I'd only imagine that in the future they'd be able to last longer...Well, sorry, but TNG DID use a plethora of 23rd Century ship models from the TOS feature films (understandable as they're nice models and made the show look like it had a larger production budget than it did) - and sorry when you have lines from STIII:TSFS of:
Admiral: "The Enterprise is 20 years old. We feel feel her day is over..."
(and yes, said film writer made a mistake there as the ship was closer to 40 years when the character said that...)
But my point:
Suddenly we have Miranda, Oberon and Excelsior Class ships in service 80+ years in the 24th century era Starfleet and no one bats an eye?
Well, sorry, but TNG DID use a plethora of 23rd Century ship models from the TOS feature films (understandable as they're nice models and made the show look like it had a larger production budget than it did) - and sorry when you have lines from STIII:TSFS of:
Admiral: "The Enterprise is 20 years old. We feel feel her day is over..."
(and yes, said film writer made a mistake there as the ship was closer to 40 years when the character said that...)
But my point:
Suddenly we have Miranda, Oberon and Excelsior Class ships in service 80+ years in the 24th century era Starfleet and no one bats an eye?
The Boeing B-52 Stratofortress first flew in 1952. It is expected to serve at least until 2045. That's 90+ years of service.
You can easily use a 23rd century ship in the 24th century. Surely you can understand why the opposite is problematic!
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Well, the real USS Enterprise naval vessel was in service for 55 years. It wouldn't be surprising that with more advance technology you'd be able to get 80 years of service. And, the key really is refitting the old tech with new tech and keeping the frame. I'm not surprised that they can make the space frames last 80 years.Well, sorry, but TNG DID use a plethora of 23rd Century ship models from the TOS feature films (understandable as they're nice models and made the show look like it had a larger production budget than it did) - and sorry when you have lines from STIII:TSFS of:
Admiral: "The Enterprise is 20 years old. We feel feel her day is over..."
(and yes, said film writer made a mistake there as the ship was closer to 40 years when the character said that...)
But my point:
Suddenly we have Miranda, Oberon and Excelsior Class ships in service 80+ years in the 24th century era Starfleet and no one bats an eye?
In fairness, the Enterprise took more of a hammering than modern naval ships do! In that scenario I imagine the combat and skirmishes would diminish lifespan significantly more compared to a ship that only had survey missions.
