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Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons

Amen. "The Alternative Factor," anyone? Turnabout Intruder?

As a dog-lover, I never quite understood why "A Night in Sickbay" annoyed people so much. :)
I think ENT: "A Night in Sickbay" is up there with "the worst of Trek" - but for me in that vein - nothing beats: TOS - "And the Children Shall Lead" or TNG: "Code of Honor" or DS9: "The Muse" or VOY: "Threshold" :)
 
I think ENT: "A Night in Sickbay" is up there with "the worst of Trek" - but for me in that vein - nothing beats: TOS - "And the Children Shall Lead" or TNG: "Code of Honor" or DS9: "The Muse" or VOY: "Threshold" :)

I don't know. I thought "Profit and Lace" and pretty bad, and probably offensive by today's standards. :)
 
I think ENT: "A Night in Sickbay" is up there with "the worst of Trek" - but for me in that vein - nothing beats: TOS - "And the Children Shall Lead" or TNG: "Code of Honor" or DS9: "The Muse" or VOY: "Threshold" :)

I think it is pretty average. They were striving for something that I don't think a lot of the audience "got". It was out there by Trek standards of the time. But, I rewatched it a year ago and definitely don't feel it is as bad as fandom makes it out to be.
 
I think it points to Star Trek fans taking Star Trek a little too seriously when they can't accept something like "A Night in Sickbay" in the universe.
Who can't accept it in the universe? It's there, it just suuuuuuucks, and makes Archer look like a bigger angerball doofus than he already was.

I know the dog and cat to human relationship is not quite the same, but it's been a while since I've had a dog, so I'm talking about my cats. I love my cats. If they were to get sick and nearly die I would be very upset. It might even affect me emotionally at work. But, if I was the captain of the ship (or a boss at a company) whose job it was to serve as the rock that the crew looks upon for guidance and stability, I would suck it up in my quarters or office before going out to deal with them, and I wouldn't lash out at my coworkers and subordinates and treat them unprofessionally. That makes you look like an infant.

If I was dealing with a notoriously nitpicky and tedious species with tons of rules of conduct and laborious traditions, I would not bring my cats down to the planet to roam free and possibly use the base of one of their sacred trees as a litter box. That would either make me look like their world's most ignorant jackass, or it makes it look like I was deliberately hoping for another incident to express my petulant rage about and break off these important negotiations for the plasma doohickeys, because again, I'm behaving like an infant.

If I took my cats to the only person in the region who could care for them, or who would even bother to make the effort, I would not angrily question their qualifications, I would not question whether they cared about saving my pets because they themselves did not own pets and did not come from a society that cherished pets, and I would not camp out in their office and then angrily whine about the manner in which he provided for the care and feeding of the creatures in his care. That would make me look like a... wait for it... infant, and a dick. A dickfant.

And all this is before we get into the juvenile as shit scenes with Archer's double entendre Freudian Tourette's Syndrome with T'Pol where he keeps accidentally saying "breasts" and "lips" instead of "best" and "list" because he's currently living in an Adam Sandler movie.

It's the most juvenile elements people complain about from The Orville minus being a show that has never, ever set that kind of tone before, so unlike in Orville, it's completely out of left field. Nor is it funny or even trying to be played for laughs, it's just embarrassing. We're supposed to feel bad for Archer as he behaves like an uncultured menace to his crew and an alien species because his doggy is sick. I was already irritated by Archer's tendency to scream at everyone and act like an impatient and occasionally bigoted dick, but this episode took it to new heights.

They were striving for something that I don't think a lot of the audience "got". It was out there by Trek standards of the time.
That's so dismissive. It's not the movie Primer. It's not some Enigma Code that we have to decipher. Just because people didn't like it doesn't mean they didn't get it. It's not deep. They're not going to be writing literary analysis on it in a hundred years, contemplating whether the true meaning of the dog pissing on the tree was symbolizing man's loneliness in an increasingly disconnected world. It's a dumb man and his dog story... in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace. They could have done a nice man and his dog story. I'm a sucker for that kind of thing. They could have just read Jimmy Stewart's poem about his recently deceased dog from Carson and stuck in some space aliens and it would have been better than this.
 
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That's not inconsistent writing. This is Janeway on one of her first incidents lost in space, compared to Janeway 30 years later, an old woman, bitter and cynical. She no longer cares. This is all highlighted in dialogue, and is the argument between her and her younger self.
That was the example that sprang immediately to my mind. But, her general irreverence to the PD at times showed up in Season 1 (I think "The Swarm" but I'll have to double check the season order) and then in other episodes within a season, she's more lax. She vacillates in her adherence to the rules, but is quick to punish officers severely for their own violations.

Why does Tuvix need to be addressed again(Even though it was actually referenced again) Why is Voyager supposed to be more serialized than the other shows, then faulted because it isn't? And how many crazy, life altering incidents in TNG, and DS9 happened and were never addressed again?
Because that was the premise laid out in the pilot. That's why I hold it that way. Again, it's not that VOY is all bad, but it set itself up as something different, and then fell back on the TNG formula. That's not enjoyable for me-I'm glad it is enjoyable for you.

Regardless, you want more, send me PMs. This is hardly on topic.
 
As a dog-lover, I never quite understood why "A Night in Sickbay" annoyed people so much. :)

I don't mind the dog in "A Night in Sickbay." It's the humans that annoy me. :)

It's comedy that's painfully unfunny. I laughed not once, and while I was not laughing I found Archer at his most unlikable. The main character of the show was presented as a bratty four-year-old throwing a tantrum for 45 minutes. I already didn't like Archer very much but A Night in Sickbay made me hate him. Not enjoyable, not funny, annoying, obnoxious – I could write synonymous for pages.

It's the Movie 43 of Star Trek episodes.
Uh huh. The episode was supposed to be light hearted and comedic but just comes across as kind of weird and not funny. My personal feeling is that the comedic aspect of the episode was undercut by Scott Bakula's acting, and to an extent, the writing. Scott just was not that good at comedic acting.

When I think about A Night in Sickbay I picture someone like Nathan Fillion as Archer and those scenes that come across as awkward and juvenile just may have actually have been funny.
 
When you're asked to go on a mission from your ship to the surface and perform a function, that's your job. Obeying your commanding officer, like the ships second in command is your job, there are lots of things that are his job, and in this episode he sucked at all the aspects of his job that were required of him.

He was being an utter dumbass at his actual job.

Maybe they are riffing on the trope of sending bridge crew on away missions. Why would a ship with hundreds of people onboard not have people specially trained for away missions? Why is a navigator the best person to send and not security personnel?

Regardless, this is a comedy and comedies are built on people doing funny, stupid and improbable stuff. The antics Hawkeye pulled would have had him court marshaled several times over in real life no matter how good of a Doctor he was but you all buy it. The constrant call backs to Mash also makes me think most of you are very old and not the target demographic for Orville anyway.

I'm 40 and I can barely recall a MASH episode, so most of you must be older than me.. If you guys don't like the humor don't watch it.
 
Maybe they are riffing on the trope of sending bridge crew on away missions. Why would a ship with hundreds of people onboard not have people specially trained for away missions? Why is a navigator the best person to send and not security personnel?

Regardless, this is a comedy and comedies are built on people doing funny, stupid and improbable stuff. The antics Hawkeye pulled would have had him court marshaled several times over in real life no matter how good of a Doctor he was but you all buy it. The constrant call backs to Mash also makes me think most of you are very old and not the target demographic for Orville anyway.

I'm 40 and I can barely recall a MASH episode, so most of you must be older than me.. If you guys don't like the humor don't watch it.

this is mostly the point im trying to make with comparing this to discovery.

i can find this funny but not seriously like Disco.

and im mid 30's. i just like mash a lot.
 
like dry humping a statue in public in front of an alien culture when your number one rule is to draw no attention and cause absolutely no ruckus?

Like NASA’s ground crews inserting nude pictures in instructions and NASA’s astronauts giggling like teenage schoolboys. In our only manned missions in another celestial body! It doesn’t get more serious than that and yet...

https://aphelis.net/seen-any-interesting-hills-valley-playmates-on-the-moon-1969/

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Like NASA’s ground crews inserting nude pictures in instructions and NASA’s astronauts giggling like teenage schoolboys. In our only manned missions in another celestial body! It doesn’t get more serious than that and yet...

https://aphelis.net/seen-any-interesting-hills-valley-playmates-on-the-moon-1969/

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

hardly analogous to my quote.

"in public in front of an alien culture when your number one rule is to draw no attention and cause absolutely no ruckus?"
 
John was ill-equipped to understand and anticipate mob behavior, having been born into a utopia where - in keeping with Roddenberry's vision - every individual is guaranteed the right to hump anything.
 
hardly analogous to my quote.

"in public in front of an alien culture when your number one rule is to draw no attention and cause absolutely no ruckus?"

Actually my example is much worse. Imagine if the jumping astronaut stepped on some moon microorganisms and destroyed them. The last of their kind! It’s practically a xenogenocide! A xenocide if you will. That’s way worse than dry humping a statue.
 
Actually my example is much worse. Imagine if the jumping astronaut stepped on some moon microorganisms and destroyed them. The last of their kind! It’s practically a xenogenocide! A xenocide if you will. That’s way worse than dry humping a statue.

Better or worse doesn't quite matter, it's not the same thing
 
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