Discovery and "The Orville" Comparisons

[mos6507]

In the key demo, yes. Overall viewership is down about 40%.

It's still too early to answer the question why but my guess is that people tuned in expecting Galaxy Quest (or at least, pew pew) and they're just not interested in the more serious/talky storylines.

We'll see if the trend continues as word of mouth about what it really is spreads. It could very well pull in the demo that may have been shying away before because of it being Seth.

 

[Borgminister]

What it really is?.... Sorry, I love the show but I don't think it quite knows what it really is yet. The potential is surprisingly there, and it's enjoyable, but...

 

[Noname Given]

Yeah, they still let Cleveland Show get to four seasons, though it's ratings were decent the first two I think.

I doubt "The Cleveland Show" was as expensive to produce as The Orville though <--- And that cost would be a big part of any decision RE: The show's continuation/renewal past it's allotted 13 episodes.

I think it will continue for a time. Last season, networks really didn’t cancel shows. They just didn’t add episodes. If Orville continues it’s drop, MacFarlane or not, we’ll not see anything past the first 13.

Oh yeah, I definitely don't think they would ever pull the show. I was thinking more long-term (e.g., renewal decisioning).

I'm just a numbers person who always likes to discuss ratings and television in general.

^^^^
Um, you don't think FOX would pull an expensive Science Fiction based show if the ratings are below what they expect? Do you KNOW the cancellation history of the particular Network?

 

[Dr. Bashirs protege]

Oh yeah, I definitely don't think they would ever pull the show. I was thinking more long-term (e.g., renewal decisioning).

Me too. Although sometimes I need to take a step back because what will happen is their will be a new show I love and will so intensely follow ratings hoping fo

I'm just a numbers person who always likes to discuss ratings and television in general.

It's still too early to answer the question why but my guess is that people tuned in expecting Galaxy Quest (or at least, pew pew) and they're just not interested in the more serious/talky storylines.

We'll see if the trend continues as word of mouth about what it really is spreads. It could very well pull in the demo that may have been shying away before because of it being Seth.

There is a reason they were marketing this to Seth MacFarlane fans, as much as we may not want to admit that group is MUCH larger than the TNG fandom. The problem becomes if you really step back from the echo chamber that is the internet, how many hard core to the bone TNG fans would actually watch the Orville when many refused to watch actual licensed star trek spin offs that followed. I could easily seen them reacting as "why would I want to watch a cheap star trek knock off from the dick joke guy?"

 

[Campe]

It's still too early to answer the question why but my guess is that people tuned in expecting Galaxy Quest (or at least, pew pew) and they're just not interested in the more serious/talky storylines.

We'll see if the trend continues as word of mouth about what it really is spreads. It could very well pull in the demo that may have been shying away before because of it being Seth.

I think it’s probably a little of both. I also think moving a series from night to night is dangerous to your ratings. People don’t necessarily talk about this stuff in the internet or watch commercials to see when the shows are on or off. Plus you lose the football lead in (which likely played on the MacFarlane connection), you’ll see this. The question is: will it bounce back?

 

[Borgminister]

I think it’s probably a little of both. I also think moving a series from night to night is dangerous to your ratings. People don’t necessarily talk about this stuff in the internet or watch commercials to see when the shows are on or off. Plus you lose the football lead in (which likely played on the MacFarlane connection), you’ll see this. The question is: will it bounce back?

Debbie Downer episodes like that one from McFarlane will not hold his fan base. Crossing my fingers that Seth and company figure out the right balance and tone, let alone subject matter.

 

[Campe]

Debbie Downer episodes like that one from McFarlane will not hold his fan base. Crossing my fingers that Seth and company figure out the right balance and tone, let alone subject matter.

It wanted to be “Measure of the Man” or “The Outcast.” It didn’t quite reach that bar, did it?

 

[Dr. Bashirs protege]

To expand on my point. I actually think it hinders as opposed to helps that the Orville is out at same time as discovery. Discovery's budget is so massive that when you compare the Orville to it, it looks soooooo cheap when in actuality it's not. Especially the ship CGI which is okay looks dated instantly when you compare it. There is also another issue, alot of the Orville depends on people knowing TNG. Everything down to lighting and set design. Let me tell you this, everyone who I have shown the Orville to thinks it looks like shyte. Not because it is, but because the nineties look is so completely associated with cheapness

 

[Campe]

To expand on my point. I actually think it hinders as opposed to helps that the Orville is out at same time as discovery. Discovery's budget is so massive that when you compare the Orville to it, it looks soooooo cheap when in actuality it's not. Especially the ship CGI which is okay looks dated instantly when you compare it. There is also another issue, alot of the Orville depends on people knowing TNG. Everything down to lighting and set design. Let me tell you this, everyone who I have shown the Orville to thinks it looks like shyte. Not because it is, but because the nineties look is so completely associated with cheapness

I don’t think you need to know TNG to understand The Orville. It helps, but TNG’s not “required reading.”

 

[MvRojo]

I doubt "The Cleveland Show" was as expensive to produce as The Orville though <--- And that cost would be a big part of any decision RE: The show's continuation/renewal past it's allotted 13 episodes.


^^^^
Um, you don't think FOX would pull an expensive Science Fiction based show if the ratings are below what they expect? Do you KNOW the cancellation history of the particular Network?

I think they'd keep it on. They let shows fully air their initial orders last season even when they dropped to a 0.6/0.7 rating (e.g., Pitch).

 

[Campe]

I think they'd keep it on. They let shows fully air their initial orders last season even when they dropped to a 0.6/0.7 rating (e.g., Pitch).

It probably would cost less to let shows finish their orders these days than to cancel and have to pay penalties on breaking contracts. Especially on big ensemble shows. Like The Orville.

 

[MvRojo]

It wanted to be “Measure of the Man” or “The Outcast.” It didn’t quite reach that bar, did it?

It was a noble attempt, but a vagina joke, and the captain calling people "dicks" kinda took me out of it. I know he wants there to be humor, but I think certain scenes could work better if just played straight.

 

[Borgminister]

It was a noble attempt, but a vagina joke, and the captain calling people "dicks" kinda took me out of it. I know he wants there to be humor, but I think certain scenes could work better if just played straight.

I have to admit, I laughed at the vagina/cleft lip sequence. But yeah, it was in no way, shape or form Measure of a Man or The Outcast. I think it can have episodes like that in the mix, oddly enough. But will it have the time and will the audience be there.... crossing fingers.

 

[Dr. Bashirs protege]

I don’t think you need to know TNG to understand The Orville. It helps, but TNG’s not “required reading.”

I'm not talking at all about characters or plot. I'm talking about its design styles and what not. It LOOKS dated and cheap when in actuality it's just a direct call back to TNG. Look at an episode of house of cards, which is just show in regular houses and buildings. But with lighting and camera angles etc it looks and FEELS modern. Now look at a show of that type from the early 2000s, post HD. It's still only in buildings and rooms in our time, what changed? The big issue is if you take house of cards and compare it the Orville from a pure STYLISTIC point of view. to someone (most people) who give no shits or don't know that it's a tie back to the nineties or that it's an intentional thing they would be left thinking "why does this set in my current year feel more modern than than a show set 400 years in the future?". Let's be honest here, the expanse stylistically destroys the Orville in the eyes of the modern viewer and that show has an 800k an episode budget

 

[Campe]

It was a noble attempt, but a vagina joke, and the captain calling people "dicks" kinda took me out of it. I know he wants there to be humor, but I think certain scenes could work better if just played straight.

Not to forget the Norm McDonald goo dick joke.

I did actually laugh out loud at a few of the non dick and fart jokes in this episode. That’s saying something. Keeping stories like this with somewhat of a light touch is good. I just don’t know if I trust MacFarlane’s touch.

 

[MvRojo]

Not to forget the Norm McDonald goo dick joke.

I did actually laugh out loud at a few of the non dick and fart jokes in this episode. That’s saying something. Keeping stories like this with somewhat of a light touch is good. I just don’t know if I trust MacFarlane’s touch.

Yeah, at least that was a crude joke in a silly scene. And I did find parts funny as well.

 

[mos6507]

Discovery's budget is so massive that when you compare the Orville to it, it looks soooooo cheap when in actuality it's not

The furniture in The Orville has a decidedly off-the-shelf look to it, becuse I think in some cases, it really IS. The woodgrain tables in their version of Ten Forward, for instance, look like regular tables, nothing purpose-built. I don't think this is a showstopper to enjoying the show, but it does convey a cost-cutting mentality that goes beyond merely copying TNG. TNG at least looked like most if not all the furniture was custom built, like the reclining seats on the Enterprise-D bridge or the illuminated table surface in Ten Forward.

Also, I think Discovery has its own problems in the production design standpoint, which is that it's just busy for its own sake and incoherent. The steampunk transporter room is a great example, and the nerdy Zapp Brannigan outfits with the incredibly dorky looking half-collar and the disco sequin side panels. Looking high-budget is only half the battle. It has to be a genuinely good design. Orville is bland but tasteful whereas Discovery is gaudy and tacky.

 

[Fateor]

I'm not certain how it is you can make that statement when you haven't seen Discovery yet.

Orville's third episode, while thought provoking, does very little new that we haven't seen before on television. Also, for a series that's set in the 25th century, it relies far too much on modern day pop culture to accomplish anything. It also lost 40% of its audience moving to Thursdays. I've enjoyed Orville for the most thus far, but it has some weaknesses.

Given the full numbers aren't in yet I find it rather amusing that you think it lost 40% of it's audience.

 

[mos6507]

Yeah, at least that was a crude joke in a silly scene. And I did find parts funny as well.

The problem is that Norm's character is not integral to the plot. His scenes are merely isolated comic relief. I suppose they help build atmosphere for the goings on within the ship beyond the leads, but that's about it. It's filler.

 

[MvRojo]

Given the full numbers aren't in yet I find it rather amusing that you think it lost 40% of it's audience.

The final numbers tend not to adjust that much, unless there are extenuating circumstances. The first two episodes of Orville had larger adjusted because of a delayed start for episode 2, and because both episodes 1 and 2 had multiple airings that were factored in together.

So, if there is an adjustment, it would be at a relatively small amount. So the audience decline could be 39% or 41%, rather than 40%.