Discovery, a 32nd century starship.

[Discofan]

Spoiler: Spoiler

A strong case can be made that after the last refit Discovery has become a 32nd-century starship in her own right.

Remember the refit of Enterprise in TMP, Decker said, with good reason, that it was so different from what it used to be that Kirk didn't even know her anymore? (Or something to that effect, I don't recall his exact words). Yet it was only to integrate a decade of progress.... A DECADE... And you get a ship that radically different. And to further that, when Scotty was rematerialized after 70 years of transporter stasis, he was completely baffled by the changes in technology. Every suggestion he made, every time he tried to contribute, it was met by a sigh of impatience by Geordi!!! And yet Scotty was brilliant, a miracle worker, and it wasn't a boast in his time, but in Geordi's time, he had become almost useless.


Now think of the Discovery, it is at least as old as the first version of the Enterprise and it has jumped 930 years into the future. A refit at this point is like ninety-three TMP refits, NINETY-THREE!!!

In all likelihood, there is nothing left of the original Discovery, nothing but the name and the appearance. That is, every circuit has been replaced by a more efficient and therefore different one, alloys have been changed to better alloys... plus there's that bigger in the inside technology from the 29th century remember? So why do they call it Discovery and pretend that it's the same ship then? Why did Starfleet authorize Sisko to have "the Sao Polo" rechristen "the defiant"? By respect and consideration for his service... That's why!!! To indulge his nostalgia. And or Discovery it is to give the team a sense that they belong there.

Plus what purpose would it serve to give that ship a different name? I mean it kind of looks like the old one. They didn't change the name of the Enterprise in TMP but according to Decker, they might as well have.

Well, there are other arguments but for now, I think these will suffice.

I forgot to put "spoiler" in the title sorry.

 

[Markonian]

Unless Starfleet had programmable matter "eat" and replace the entire ship, I'm not sure they swapped out every nook and cranny in a three-week refit. Imho, critical gear was replaced to bring the Discovery up to 32ndC specs without replacing every individual part.

Let's say you took a Trabant car from the 1980 and swapped some of the interior tech, and its engine, to make it kosher for modern inner cities. Could still leave the chassis, wheels, windows, etc. intact.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

A whole new thread about this eh?

The Discovery is a 23rd century starship, launched in the 2250s that has recieved system upgrades to bring it in line with its 32nd century counterparts. While these upgrades are clearly extensive they're also clearly not absolute - the spore drive in particular must be the original since this somehow eludes 32nd century science and they've explained at length that it can't be replicated. So evidently 'there's nothing left of the original Discovery' is not correct.

As I said in the other thread, a Navy warship from the 1960s can recieve all the technological upgrades it likes - it doesn't become a 2020s warship.

Just like the Discovery remains a 23rd century starship, albeit one that's had significant upgrades using 32nd century technology.

 

[Discofan]

....

Let's say you took a Trabant car from the 1980 and swapped some of the interior tech, and its engine, to make it kosher for modern inner cities. Could still leave the chassis, wheels, windows, etc. intact.

Why would you leave the chassis? These things rusted so fast... Sometimes a hole appeared under the driver's feet!!!

Bad example I am afraid...

 

[Discofan]

A whole new thread about this eh?

The Discovery is a 23rd century starship, launched in the 2250s that has recieved system upgrades to bring it in line with its 32nd century counterparts. While these upgrades are clearly extensive they're also clearly not absolute - the spore drive in particular must be the original since this somehow eludes 32nd century science and they've explained at length that it can't be replicated. So evidently 'there's nothing left of the original Discovery' is not correct.

As I said in the other thread, a Navy ship from the 1960s can recieve all the technological upgrades it likes - it doesn't become a 2020s warship.

Way to ignore what I said in the OP!! That's your way of arguing... You just pretend that the other person's arguments don't exist...

No wonder you "win" every argument...

 

[Discofan]

Unless Starfleet had programmable matter "eat" and replace the entire ship, I'm not sure they swapped out every nook and cranny in a three-week refit. Imho, critical gear was replaced to bring the Discovery up to 32ndC specs without replacing every individual part.

Let's say you took a Trabant car from the 1980 and swapped some of the interior tech, and its engine, to make it kosher for modern inner cities. Could still leave the chassis, wheels, windows, etc. intact.

BTW, the Trabant was a death trap. It had no road holding!! Plus you need to add airbags and stuff; Where are you going to put them?

 

[Angry Fanboy]

No wonder you "win" every argument...

Who said I win every argument? This one certainly but I don't win every one!

 

[Discofan]

Who said I win every argument? This one certainly but I don't win every one!

Still only seeing part of the statement, I see. Well, maybe you suffer from spacial neglect... That's a real thing. You should consult.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Still only seeing one part of the statement, I see. Well, maybe you suffer from spacial neglect... That's a real thing. You should consult.

'Spacial neglect' eh?

Bit off-topic but yeah, I'll keep an eye out for that one...

 

[Discofan]

'Spacial neglect' eh? Yeah I'll keep an eye out for that one...

alright, you've trolled that thread enough already.

Don't you think?

 

[Angry Fanboy]

That's the problem, I am afraid.

Thanks for the advice, Bones!

Moving on... so the Discovery is a 32nd century starship then eh?

 

[Discofan]

Thanks for the advice, Bones!

Moving on... so the Discovery is a 32nd century starship then eh?

Still, trolling?

 

[Discofan]

Just a general remark to all the... angry people out there.

You can't win an argument if you just ignore the other person's points and never address them!!!

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Still, trolling?

Good grief. Name calling, personal comments and now accusations of trolling!

Can't we just have a civil conversation about whether or not Discovery is a 32nd century starship or not?!

 

[SJGardner]

By the way, every single human being currently in existence is no more than seven years old because that's how long it takes for most of your dead cells to be replaced by new ones.

Again, it is being asserted that Discovery had been replaced with programmable matter down to the last bolt, without any evidence to support it, with the episode flat-out stating that her internal systems were updated and augmented with programmable matter. If it were structurally replaced and completely rebuilt from scratch, Saru would've surely mentioned it. As long as the core of the structure is the same, it is the same vessel. The USS Midway (CV-41), for example, wasn't recommissioned as a brand new vessel every time its flight deck was reconstructed and no one pretended it wasn't a ship from the mid-40s.

 

[Discofan]

By the way, every single human being currently in existence is no more than seven years old because that's how long it takes for most of your dead cells to be replaced by new ones.

That's at least debatable but we're not talking about mere replacements here. This is a completely different ship.

See how much the Enterprise-D differs from the Enterprise (no letter)?

Multiply that by 9 and you'll get the difference between Discovery and Discovery 32nd century refit!!!

Again, it is being asserted that Discovery had been replaced with programmable matter down to the last bolt,

I never said that but, it's unlikely that there is one piece of technology on board that hasn't been radically changed, hence replaced.

without any evidence to support it, with the episode flat-out stating that her internal systems were updated and augmented with programmable matter. If it were structurally replaced and completely rebuilt from scratch, Saru would've surely mentioned it. As long as the core of the structure is the same, it is the same vessel. The USS Midway (CV-41), for example, wasn't recommissioned as a brand new vessel every time its flight deck was reconstructed and no one pretended it wasn't a ship from the mid-40s.

Even the alloys are likely to be different and that means a replacement of the bulkheads and even most of the hull.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

But it's not a 'completely different ship' though is it? It's the same ship that's been upgraded.

Comparing the 2240s Enterprise with the 2360s Enterprise-D is a false equivalency - these are two distinct vessels of different classes seperated by over a hundred years.

The Discovery is a ship that's had a significant refit, much like the Motion Picture Enterprise had a significant refit but wasn't a brand new spacecraft.

 

[SJGardner]

See how much the Enterprise-D differs from the Enterprise (no letter)?

The Enterprise-D was a completely new construction though. It's not a refit, nor a retrofit of the original E. No one is claiming that a glass office block built on the site of a demolished beaux-arts building in the mid-2000s is fundamentally the same construction.

we're not talking about mere replacements here. This is a completely different ship.

Even the alloys are likely to be different and that means a replacement of the bulkheads and even most of the hull.

Again, what's the evidence for that other than your own assertion that it surely must have been done so? Don't you think something that drastic would need to be made explicit by the dialogue?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Really I think the difference was about on par with TOS > TMP refit (less so, going by the sets being unchanged), except the scope of the technology added was a lot greater. Weapons and defences that can shield from and compete with the rest of the 3189 Starfleet. A cloaking device. Programmable matter and detached warp nacelles (whatever difference they make), holodecks according to the mission logs. The entirely of Blade Runner's future LA, full of turbolifts zipping about all going nowhere.

 

[Discofan]

The Enterprise-D was a completely new construction though. It's not a refit, nor a retrofit of the original E. No one is claiming that a glass office block built on the site of a demolished beaux-arts building in the mid-2000s is fundamentally the same construction.


Again, what's the evidence for that other than your own assertion that it surely must have been done so? Don't you think something that drastic would need to be made explicit by the dialogue?

Again, why was the Sao Paulo rechristened?