Stamets also has a fairly large ego. How would he know there are no tardigrades in our universe?
Discovery, a 32nd century starship.
- Thread starter Discofan
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Sorry for the bump. While I was re-watching the third season of Discovery, this exchange of dialogue came up that I took note of in "Unification III", beginning around the 22:20-mark.I understand, but if Vance was that concerned, he should not have let the Discovery out of Starfleet Command. Of course, I'm thinking logically and rationally, unlike a DSC scriptwriter.
Ni'Var President T'Rina: "I was informed your jump to the future is not widely known. Even within Starfleet."
Saru: "The Admiral was concerned it could be polarizing, given the Temporal Accords. Yet there was no other way to explain to you the presence of Spock's Sister."
T'Rina: "I confess I am astonished at the risk taken by your crew."
One of the problems with first watching these episodes overnight was that I was half-awake and didn't fully remember everything. Or what I did remember, I don't remember where I remembered it from, so I made the mistake of thinking if it was somewhere in my head, it must've been a rationalization I came up with. But it wasn't.
The idea got in my head in the first place because of the actual dialogue from the episode. So I just plum forgot.
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And things thus would probably be fine if our heroes didn't so eagerly open hailing frequencies with random riffraff, while wearing their 2250s uniforms.
...Or do they have a holofilter on, "Apocalypse Rising" style?
But thanks to Michael, few live to tell the story. And those who do end up worshipping the earth beneath Michael's feet anyway.
Timo Saloniemi
...Or do they have a holofilter on, "Apocalypse Rising" style?
But thanks to Michael, few live to tell the story. And those who do end up worshipping the earth beneath Michael's feet anyway.
Timo Saloniemi
In fairness, most people in the 32nd Century probably don't even remember the old DSC Uniforms and would associate the 23rd Century with TOS Uniforms.
Assuming they're even that good at distinguishing different centuries from that far back (forget about different decades). I sure can't tell the difference between 11th and 12th Century clothing. But I'm sure a Historian who focuses on Medieval Times would be able to.
I gather there's no prominent "23rd century uniform", if the Abramsverse 2230s are the same as the regular ones; if there's then DSC and then TOS and then TMP and then the rest of the TOS movies; and if the first decades of that century are different again. That's a whole rainbow of design styles and approaches, the Abramsverse ones being basically TNG ones with different colors, the DSC ones taking that to a Flash Gordonesque direction, the 1960s shows investing in pants and pullovers, TMP diggin' pajamas, and the rest going for heavy jackets. Difficult to form an impression of the 23rd that way, as opposed to, say, the 20th...
But it's all moot anyway, because we then see what the future has in store, in the visions and flash-whicheverways of Tal and So'kal. And it's all the same-o! Nothing whatsoever distinguishes the future from the past.
Does this mean that anything goes, and Col. O'Neill in his USAF coveralls would fit right in, too? Depends. But Starfleet in Vance's time is said to be fractured. No doubt the uniform code is far from uniform, too, then: some shards of the former whole might stick to outdated styles, while others might have moved forward with styles of their very own. So Saru might be convincing enough, whether he pretends to run a generation ship or a modern Starfleet one. Not even a library search would establish anything amiss there, as a Starfleet faction could well have done their own searching and decided to adopt a uniform a millennium out of fashion...
Timo Saloniemi
But it's all moot anyway, because we then see what the future has in store, in the visions and flash-whicheverways of Tal and So'kal. And it's all the same-o! Nothing whatsoever distinguishes the future from the past.
Does this mean that anything goes, and Col. O'Neill in his USAF coveralls would fit right in, too? Depends. But Starfleet in Vance's time is said to be fractured. No doubt the uniform code is far from uniform, too, then: some shards of the former whole might stick to outdated styles, while others might have moved forward with styles of their very own. So Saru might be convincing enough, whether he pretends to run a generation ship or a modern Starfleet one. Not even a library search would establish anything amiss there, as a Starfleet faction could well have done their own searching and decided to adopt a uniform a millennium out of fashion...
Timo Saloniemi
The official cover story I'm going to guess Discovery is going to continue to go with for those Vance or Burnham & Saru don't want to be in the know. Lifted from "People of Earth" at the 20:55-mark.
Saru: "I am Captain Saru of the USS Discovery. We are a Starfleet Vessel and unfamiliar with the United Earth Defense Force. Are you a branch of the Federation?"
Ndoye: "Your ship is not in our records."
Saru: "Discovery was on a long-term, classified scientific expedition. We are the descendants of its original crew."
Ndoye: "And you've continued to function as a Starfleet vessel?"
Saru: "We have. We wish to contact a Starfleet Officer whose message we received. Earth was its point of origin."
Ndoye: "Your vessel's construction and metallurgy suggests 23rd to 25th Century construction. I find it quite odd that it remains in service."
Saru: "There is no need to replace that which is not broken."
Ndoye: "How did your ship survive The Burn?"
Saru: "It was not at warp at the time."
So, if Discovery still had the same uniform then, according to the story, they wouldn't have had a reason to change it if they were either 1) out-of-contact or, 2) so far away for so long. There's precedence for the second example on Voyager, after they came back into contact with Starfleet and saw the FC Uniforms.
And cover-story or no cover-story, Vance probably let Discovery keep their old uniforms during the third season, to help ease the crew's transition into the 32nd Century. Change things a little at a time instead of all at once.
Saru: "I am Captain Saru of the USS Discovery. We are a Starfleet Vessel and unfamiliar with the United Earth Defense Force. Are you a branch of the Federation?"
Ndoye: "Your ship is not in our records."
Saru: "Discovery was on a long-term, classified scientific expedition. We are the descendants of its original crew."
Ndoye: "And you've continued to function as a Starfleet vessel?"
Saru: "We have. We wish to contact a Starfleet Officer whose message we received. Earth was its point of origin."
Ndoye: "Your vessel's construction and metallurgy suggests 23rd to 25th Century construction. I find it quite odd that it remains in service."
Saru: "There is no need to replace that which is not broken."
Ndoye: "How did your ship survive The Burn?"
Saru: "It was not at warp at the time."
So, if Discovery still had the same uniform then, according to the story, they wouldn't have had a reason to change it if they were either 1) out-of-contact or, 2) so far away for so long. There's precedence for the second example on Voyager, after they came back into contact with Starfleet and saw the FC Uniforms.
And cover-story or no cover-story, Vance probably let Discovery keep their old uniforms during the third season, to help ease the crew's transition into the 32nd Century. Change things a little at a time instead of all at once.
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For their first mission, in "Die Trying", it makes sense not to allow them to wear a real Starfleet uniform - they're just hired guns whose only defense against facing the firing squad for falsely wearing a Starfleet uniform is that said uniform is a thousand years out of date. Their second and third are semi-clandestine, semi-rogue sorties anyway. It's "Sanctuary" that raises the question of whether gentle easing in still works as a rationalization, what with half a season already past...
I wonder how often Starfleet welcomes in ships that have been gone for more than a hundred years? And whether this is always by accident, or perhaps sometimes by design?
Timo Saloniemi
I wonder how often Starfleet welcomes in ships that have been gone for more than a hundred years? And whether this is always by accident, or perhaps sometimes by design?
Timo Saloniemi
Saru: "Yeah, except there was this one time two crewmembers got joined together into one person and our Captain murdered the resulting life form in order to resurrect the first two. That was a little dicey under regulations, I'm pretty sure."
Ndoye: "Sure. That one tends to happen to Starfleet vessels that are off out of contact for long periods of time. Go figure. So I guess your story checks out."
Shit happens.
Some ship names
https://twitter.com/d3andy3r/status/1374687741473128452?s=21
Not pictured, one of the ships is the USS Excalibur. I think the ship some of us have been thinking is the Reliant-M is actually the Excalibur-M.
1664 vs 1864.
https://twitter.com/d3andy3r/status/1374687741473128452?s=21
Not pictured, one of the ships is the USS Excalibur. I think the ship some of us have been thinking is the Reliant-M is actually the Excalibur-M.
1664 vs 1864.
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Excalibur-M makes a lot more sense than recognizing a ship used by a crazy terrorist.
But what of Peter David's novelverse USS Exaliburs NCC-26517 and NCC-26517-A?
Erased from history
Or then Starfleet may choose to honor specific ships of a specific name, finding NCC-1664 more worthy than NCC-26517.
...Thus also allowing for NCC-1031-A fairly late in the game, I guess. Perhaps the "loss" of Saru's ship stained the name, so that Starfleet either didn't apply it much in the following centuries, or gave it to ships that were disadvantaged in the fame game (that is, garbage scows or or coastal patrol ships, or perhaps further flying labs aboard which nobody ever invented anything important).
Timo Saloniemi
...Thus also allowing for NCC-1031-A fairly late in the game, I guess. Perhaps the "loss" of Saru's ship stained the name, so that Starfleet either didn't apply it much in the following centuries, or gave it to ships that were disadvantaged in the fame game (that is, garbage scows or or coastal patrol ships, or perhaps further flying labs aboard which nobody ever invented anything important).
Timo Saloniemi
Oh I posted in the wrong thread again damn it
Could a mod move my post and replies to it here?
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/30th-century-ships-revealed.306033/page-43
Or I could just repost in there.
Could a mod move my post and replies to it here?
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/30th-century-ships-revealed.306033/page-43
Or I could just repost in there.
I wouldn't bet my life on it if I were Saru.
Starfleet at the start of S3 is in rather dire straits. We soon hear explicitly that it is fractured, with certain factions holding different ethical views altogether. Admiral Vance's conservative faction would no doubt be facing challenges from all sorts of impostors, and there would be little reason for him not to order killed those who pretend to be his Starfleet - just like militaries today would be within their rights to assemble execution squads in comparable crises.
Timo Saloniemi
Why try to make modern Trek MORE depressing?
The issue with this, of course, is that Vance seems to be incredibly ethical, at least in comparison to other Admirals. I doubt he would "assemble execution squads" but rather enact due process and investigate and perhaps try to merge with these Starfleet factions... as he did with the 23rd century time travellers, accepting them at their rank (even made-up ranks like "Captain" Saru). Vance might be very upset if he travels to DS253 and sees them engaging in sex slavery, but he's probably not going to order the station blown up. Just more of a cease-and-desist letter that can get promptly ignored and he'll respond with a shrug.
Vance has the Federation President (...supposedly) and a degree of legitimacy to his organization through that. But, I guess, there's no telling how many Federation Presidents are out there. Vulcan - I mean Ni'Var - still accepts the Vance Organization as the proper Starfleet, and their entrance back into the fold alongside Trillius will certainly legitimize any shakiness a bit more. Earth and Andoria (presumably) has shed all connections to Starfleet, and alongside the Emerald Chain, seem to accept the Vance Organization as the legitimate successor, if only through it's reach.
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