I recently read a Book about Star Treks 50th anniversary and it does confirm that Scott Bakula did call Braga and was angry about Tatv's crappy script and he absolutely hated the script and the way the Enterprise cast was portrayed in the script.. Even Jonathan Frakes has dissed TATV at convertions. There's a youtube video I saw last year Frakes mentions how unfair the way the Enterprise cast were just hologram characters talking to his chef character and the story with the Pegasus being crammed in the show was silly. They didn't get the finale they deserved. Demons and Terra Terra Prime are the Enterprise finale for a lot of fans.
Did TATV show a contempt for the characters and actors?
- Thread starter Voth commando1
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I wasn't thinking of that in particular, but I know plenty of shows have done something like that before. There was a West Wing covering 24 hours in CJ's job for example. I don't know if they ever considered something like that in Star Trek, but it might have been good now.
A fifth season of ENT would've been incredible. There was still so much Trek lore to explore.
Thing about TATV, is that it originally slated to be a season 3 episode. The idea was (as Berman described in an interview) to have the TNG characters look back on the past and see things through their eyes. However, the Xindi arc was in full swing and the threat of cancellation was hanging above their heads. Doing an inconsequential episode to the current arc would've been bad. However, the episode was still slated to be inconsequential. Berman said he planned to ignore the forecasted future events (Trip dying) had ENT gone on to a 5th, 6th and 7th season. Just use time travel or some other method to change Trip's fate, so he made it all the way to the end.
Things didn't go that way, unfortunately. Berman and Braga still decided to close on killing off Trip. This after killing his sister in season 2 and killing his daughter in the preceding episode of TATV. The Tucker family line died, with no one to carry it on.
What were they thinking?
#valentineforthefans
I recently bought the complete Blu-Ray boxsets of both ENT & TOS and I'm currently about a third of the way through season four of the former and I'm actually looking forward to watching 'These are the Voyages'. I think the problem with the episode for most fans is two (possibly three) fold: The holodeck, Trip dying & possibly the choice of episode for the framing story may also be an issue for some. Another way of looking at this episode and I would imagine it was Berman & Braga's, is that of all the past Enterprise captains Riker could have chosen to seek advice from, he chose Archer. Not Pike, not even Kirk, but Archer. In other words it was meant as a compliment. It's my understanding that there is no overt reference to Star Trek: Enterprise in 'Star Trek: Nemesis' and with there not likely to be any other Trek on the horizon at that point in time, they were running out of opportunities to get the 23rd/24th century shows to acknowledge ENT's existence in continuity, so they chose this.
There is also the fact that it flies in the face of what was established vis a vis how much information existed on Starship operations to make such a detailed recreation. In 'The Menagerie Part 1' Mendez remarks that no ship kept records that detailed when he first saw the opening shot from 'The Cage' though this is at least partially disputed by both the previous production episode 'Court Martial' with the (fabricated) recording of Kirk pressing the ion pod jettison switch as well as the flight recorder scene in 'Star Trek III: The Search for Spock'. Because lets face it, if Enterprise's records were that detailed Picard & co wouldn't have gone into their first encounter with the Borg in 'Q-Who' blind. From his examination of the history of prior Enterprises when he was appointed X-O of the Enterprise-D, Riker would have known about the incident depicted in 'Regeneration'.
I want to preface what I'm about to write by saying I'm well aware of the limitations the makers of the show had, and the availability or lack thereof of specific actors & actresses but I've been mulling over alternative ways they could have done a 'These Are The Voyages' type story. Ones marked with an '*' involve using flashbacks instead of the holodeck to tell the ENT portion of the story.
*1. It is 2245 and an elderly Tpol is visiting the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 as its commissioned under the command of Captain Robert April. She and April get talking and she tells him of the NX-01's final mission as an inspiration to April. In a nice nod, in conversation it could be suggested that Enterprise was to have been called 'Yorktown' but for her intervention in honour of Captain Archer who recently died.
*2. I don't think it was established Phlox's age/longevity so this is why I've chosen him for this one. In this story an elderly Phlox could have still been living at the time of TNG and accompanied McCoy as another former Enterprise physician on the USS Hood during 'Encounter at Farpoint' to visit the Enterprise-D. Using a partially recreated sick bay set, body doubles for the elderly McCoy & Data the framing story could have seen Phlox talking with a member of the D's sick bay staff about their facilities - it could have even been Susie Plaxson as Dr. Selar. She did appear in the series in season two as an Andorian - and by way of comparing and contrasting the two ships' medical facilities, he could have told her about the incident that comprises the main story.
*3. This one is closest to the episode as broadcast. It is set aboard the Enterprise-D during the events of 'Pegasus', but instead of the holodeck, Riker is in Ten Forward where Guinan encounters him, asks him what's wrong and Riker tells her about his crisis of conscience. By way of advice she tells him of an encounter she had with Archer and the crew of the NX-01 more than two-centuries earlier. Based on her story, Riker resolves to talk to Picard. The added thing of this is that as I recall Whoopie Goldberg didn't appear as Guinan in season seven so this would be a nice way of retrospectively inserting her into it. It would also be a very 'Guinanesque' thing to do. There is a variation on this story in that it is set during 'Best of Both Worlds Part 2' when Guinan visits Riker in the ready room and concludes with 'And thats now your chair'. The scene could encompass her telling Riker about Archer and how he overcame overwhelming odds.
4. It is night in the captain's quarters aboard the USS Titan. Riker can't sleep due to the ship's current mission and in order to get a good night's sleep, at least for herself, Deanna pushes Riker out of bed with a suggestion to visit the holodeck and seek inspiration from someone who faced a similar situation. Riker's follows his wife's instructions and chooses the NX-01's final mission. Although it uses the holodeck and assuming none of the regular cast perish, it would have at least moved the Star Trek story forward by setting the framing story after 'Nemesis'.
Anyway those are my ideas. Make of them what you will. By the way on the subject of 'Pegasus' was Riker's transporter twin Tom Riker also arrested given that the events of 'Pegasus' predate their splitting in two?
There is also the fact that it flies in the face of what was established vis a vis how much information existed on Starship operations to make such a detailed recreation. In 'The Menagerie Part 1' Mendez remarks that no ship kept records that detailed when he first saw the opening shot from 'The Cage' though this is at least partially disputed by both the previous production episode 'Court Martial' with the (fabricated) recording of Kirk pressing the ion pod jettison switch as well as the flight recorder scene in 'Star Trek III: The Search for Spock'. Because lets face it, if Enterprise's records were that detailed Picard & co wouldn't have gone into their first encounter with the Borg in 'Q-Who' blind. From his examination of the history of prior Enterprises when he was appointed X-O of the Enterprise-D, Riker would have known about the incident depicted in 'Regeneration'.
I want to preface what I'm about to write by saying I'm well aware of the limitations the makers of the show had, and the availability or lack thereof of specific actors & actresses but I've been mulling over alternative ways they could have done a 'These Are The Voyages' type story. Ones marked with an '*' involve using flashbacks instead of the holodeck to tell the ENT portion of the story.
*1. It is 2245 and an elderly Tpol is visiting the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 as its commissioned under the command of Captain Robert April. She and April get talking and she tells him of the NX-01's final mission as an inspiration to April. In a nice nod, in conversation it could be suggested that Enterprise was to have been called 'Yorktown' but for her intervention in honour of Captain Archer who recently died.
*2. I don't think it was established Phlox's age/longevity so this is why I've chosen him for this one. In this story an elderly Phlox could have still been living at the time of TNG and accompanied McCoy as another former Enterprise physician on the USS Hood during 'Encounter at Farpoint' to visit the Enterprise-D. Using a partially recreated sick bay set, body doubles for the elderly McCoy & Data the framing story could have seen Phlox talking with a member of the D's sick bay staff about their facilities - it could have even been Susie Plaxson as Dr. Selar. She did appear in the series in season two as an Andorian - and by way of comparing and contrasting the two ships' medical facilities, he could have told her about the incident that comprises the main story.
*3. This one is closest to the episode as broadcast. It is set aboard the Enterprise-D during the events of 'Pegasus', but instead of the holodeck, Riker is in Ten Forward where Guinan encounters him, asks him what's wrong and Riker tells her about his crisis of conscience. By way of advice she tells him of an encounter she had with Archer and the crew of the NX-01 more than two-centuries earlier. Based on her story, Riker resolves to talk to Picard. The added thing of this is that as I recall Whoopie Goldberg didn't appear as Guinan in season seven so this would be a nice way of retrospectively inserting her into it. It would also be a very 'Guinanesque' thing to do. There is a variation on this story in that it is set during 'Best of Both Worlds Part 2' when Guinan visits Riker in the ready room and concludes with 'And thats now your chair'. The scene could encompass her telling Riker about Archer and how he overcame overwhelming odds.
4. It is night in the captain's quarters aboard the USS Titan. Riker can't sleep due to the ship's current mission and in order to get a good night's sleep, at least for herself, Deanna pushes Riker out of bed with a suggestion to visit the holodeck and seek inspiration from someone who faced a similar situation. Riker's follows his wife's instructions and chooses the NX-01's final mission. Although it uses the holodeck and assuming none of the regular cast perish, it would have at least moved the Star Trek story forward by setting the framing story after 'Nemesis'.
Anyway those are my ideas. Make of them what you will. By the way on the subject of 'Pegasus' was Riker's transporter twin Tom Riker also arrested given that the events of 'Pegasus' predate their splitting in two?
I've read and heard many fans through the years detail the problems with TATV, and this is (to me) a new one.
And it's a good question, why Archer? Add in that Riker could have chosen from captains in Starfleet history other than just those who commanded one of the Enterprises and his choice of Archer becomes even more strange.
It's Riker. His decision making process isn't exactly the best.
Actually I was defending the episode. Riker's choice of Archer far from showing contempt for ENT, I believe was designed to elevate it in people's minds. After all what better choice for Riker to go for than 'Kirk's childhood hero'?
I always thought Braga's assertion that ratings had declined because everyone (meaning the audience the world over) was tired of Trek was incredibly self-serving. Everyone was tired of many years of their version of Trek. Part of good leadership is knowing when you need to get out of the way for fresh blood and ideas to take over. Braga & Co. never allowed that to happen despite ample evidence that it was necessary.
At which point the "purists" start complaining, like they're doing with Discovery "oh noes, everything is too different". You can never please everyone.
Too much chance, not enough change. I'm sure ENT could've been better on some levels, but I'm not going to come off like I know how it could've been better. I watched it, and for the most part I enjoyed it, even on subsequent rewatches.
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The Behr version also similarly declined in viewership and the Abrams films also got pretty steeply declining returns so it feels like the audience is pretty niche and hard to satisfy.
Were they supposed to quit? They worked very hard to make Enterprise different. Paramount wanted another series set after Voyager, and Rick Berman was concerned about oversaturation, which is a real thing. He wanted to wait a year or two(at least) before attempting another series.
If they had quit, and Paramount had sought a new Producer to create a new show, does that mean the show would have been more successful? TV Ratings have little to do with a series quality. Season 3 and 4 of Enterprise were getting fantastic critical praise, and many awards, but ratings continued declining. UPN simply could not compete nationally in the TV market post 9/11.
Would a new producer have been able to dissuade executives from demanding another spin off to TNG? I doubt it.
Discovery is now taking the exact approach that Berman & Braga had set out for with Enterprise.
If anyone remembers the first trailers for Enterprise back in 2001, they started out with "BEFORE KIRK & SPOCK.... BEFORE PICARD AND JANEWAY.... THERE WAS..."
Nope - they didn't have to quit to bring in fresh blood and fresh ideas. That's what good leaders do.
There's nothing wrong with the premise of any of the shows. VOY and ENT could've been better than they were. It's about execution.
True enough.
That's exactly what they did. They brought writers like Chris Black, Manny Coto, John Shiban, David A. Goodman, Andre & Marie Jaquemetton , Garfield & Judith Reeves.
It was like ALL fresh blood. A complete turnover. The only writers that really came over from Voyager were Mike Sussman and Phyllis Strong, and they were still very new to Trek, and even more ironically, the writing pair are responsible for almost all of the most highly praised ENT episodes.
It was like ALL fresh blood. A complete turnover. The only writers that really came over from Voyager were Mike Sussman and Phyllis Strong, and they were still very new to Trek, and even more ironically, the writing pair are responsible for almost all of the most highly praised ENT episodes.
Braga still has writing credits on episodes through season two. That doesn't start changing until season 3, which is where many people agree the show started to get good. Season 4 was really very good, but by that point it was apparently too late.
So, new writers notwithstanding, I don't buy that there was any handing over of the reigns until the last season or two of ENT.
As someone who just finished Enterprise my main issue was it basically just became a episode of TNG, focusing on arc that was finished a long time ago. It felt super rushed and didn't focus on the Enterprise crew. Also Trips death was just awful and no-one in the crew seemed to care apart from Archer and T'Pol.
All of those writers I mentioned wrote in the earlier seasons. And there were many more. Some wrote in all 4 seasons. For instance, Mike Sussman has writing credits on 5 episodes in season 1, 5 credits in 2, 3 credits in season 3, and 6 writing credits in season 4. That means a season 1 Enterprise writer has a writing credit on ever 25% of the episodes in season 4.
André Bormanis has 2 in s1, 3 in s2, 3 in s3, and 4 in s4, and so on, and so forth.
Enterprise operated no differently than the other shows. Michael Piller took over as showrunner(head writer) of TNG in season 3, then he left to start up DS9. In season 3 of DS9, he "handed over the reigns" to Ira S. Behr, and left to start up Voyager with Jeri Taylor(who took over TNG as showrunner from Piller) Jeri Taylor was showrunner of Voyager through season 4, when she "handed the reigns" to Brannon Braga. Brannon Braga remained showrunner until season 6 when he was asked to start up Enterprise. Brannon Was showrunner till season 3, when he handed the reigns to Manny Coto.
See the pattern?
There are no villains here. Enterprise wasn't canceled for reasons of quality, and possibly not even ratings. It was the second highest rated program on UPN behind WWF. It was UPN that was canceled, and Enterprise was too expensive for UPN.
