Did TATV show a contempt for the characters and actors?
- Thread starter Voth commando1
- Start date
I know, I was there.
TATV, just wasn't needed.
I gave up on Enterprise when they introduced the Space Nazis. I've watched just enough of TATV on YouTube to see the Akiraprise get shredded, and that's a good enough ending for me.
This from someone who watched TOS when it first aired.
This from someone who watched TOS when it first aired.
Truthfully I wouldn't have missed Terra Prime all that much either.
M
marlboro
Guest
You should go back and finish it up. If you're a fan of TOS I think there is a chance you might like most of season 4. Maybe "Observer Effect" would be a good one to try out.
TOS had its own Space Nazis, except theirs looked like humans.
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The transformation of the Ekosian society into a fascist regime was certainly more plausible than beady-eyed nazis from outer space dropping by to hijack the Third Reich. Perhaps there was more to it. I changed the channel when they cut to the opening theme music.
M
marlboro
Guest
Well, at least you gave it a fair chance...
TATV was OKAY, as a regular episode...Except for the Trip part. THAT was unnecessary and uncalled for, though I think they were trying for a gut punch feel, much like killing off Data, Jadzia, and Spock (though we got Spock back until STB). As a series and franchise finale, gawd no! Not OKAY. At all.
But I don't think it was showing contempt. I think the producers at the time were really trying to honor the franchise, and thought they had a good idea, and it just didn't go over very well. It is possible to be too close to something, and lose objectivity. Sometimes that DOES happen, and I think that was the case, here. What I think MAY have happened was when they got the news Enterprise was cancelled, so they looked through their stack of episode ideas, pulled that one out because it was a mixed cast episode of sorts, and ran with it.
But I don't think it was showing contempt. I think the producers at the time were really trying to honor the franchise, and thought they had a good idea, and it just didn't go over very well. It is possible to be too close to something, and lose objectivity. Sometimes that DOES happen, and I think that was the case, here. What I think MAY have happened was when they got the news Enterprise was cancelled, so they looked through their stack of episode ideas, pulled that one out because it was a mixed cast episode of sorts, and ran with it.
M
marlboro
Guest
I think it was pretty insulting, honestly.
Asked what the actors thought of the finale, Braga replied…
"The Enterprise actors? They hated it. It was the only time Scott Bakula got pissed off at me."
Asked what the actors thought of the finale, Braga replied…
"The Enterprise actors? They hated it. It was the only time Scott Bakula got pissed off at me."
Heh. marlboro, I heard Scott was so mad, he called the head office and chewed them out.
I wish I could claim ownership for this, but when Bermaga informed us that this episode was "a valentine to the fans", one of the regulars on the TWoP Enterprise forum replied as follows:
"At which point fandom changed its phone number and got a restraining order." [paraphrased].
I will note vent from my seething cauldron of hatred that I hold for this episode (which I -and many others - called The Abomination); as a would-be pro writer, I find the structure, plot and characterizations appalling, and the lack of internal continuity inexcusable, especially in a script from the executive producers.
What I find interesting is how much of fandom has simply erased this episode from canon. (I heard that CBS had done the same, unofficially.) I saw the same response from fans to "The Final Frontier". There were few stories about Sybok, or speculation on his mother, or any other fannish discussions. It was as if fandom simply nodded and passed the movie by. ("That's nice, Bill. Now let Leonard and Nick Meyer back in the office.")
Most fans I know have done the same with TATV. It was a holodeck episode, it wasn't real or accurate, Terra Prime was the true series finale, and most importantly:
Trip is NOT dead!!!!
I wish I could claim ownership for this, but when Bermaga informed us that this episode was "a valentine to the fans", one of the regulars on the TWoP Enterprise forum replied as follows:
"At which point fandom changed its phone number and got a restraining order." [paraphrased].
I will note vent from my seething cauldron of hatred that I hold for this episode (which I -and many others - called The Abomination); as a would-be pro writer, I find the structure, plot and characterizations appalling, and the lack of internal continuity inexcusable, especially in a script from the executive producers.
What I find interesting is how much of fandom has simply erased this episode from canon. (I heard that CBS had done the same, unofficially.) I saw the same response from fans to "The Final Frontier". There were few stories about Sybok, or speculation on his mother, or any other fannish discussions. It was as if fandom simply nodded and passed the movie by. ("That's nice, Bill. Now let Leonard and Nick Meyer back in the office.")
Most fans I know have done the same with TATV. It was a holodeck episode, it wasn't real or accurate, Terra Prime was the true series finale, and most importantly:
Trip is NOT dead!!!!
Terra Prime was filmed as the series finale and aired as the series finale. Terra Prime and TATV aired back to back on the same night.[/QUOTE
That's as may be, but I stand by my statement. As far as I'm concerned, Terra Prime is the finale. And before you ask,the weather here by this big river is just fine.
Yeah, watching though Enterprise for the first time last year, it was obvious Terra Prime was the finale. TATV was more of an epilogue, and a really shitty one at that.
It's a shame becuase the show was obviously setting up a lot for the aborted fifth season - the Romulan War and the founding of the Federation. I get that TATV was trying to cover the latter, but it was a really poor way of doing it.
I'd have done it like a pseudo documentary or 22nd century rolling news coverage. Have the characters as talking heads describing the events running up to the momentous day when the UFP charter was signed. Use clips from "log recordings" to illustrate key events. And then at the end lead into Archer's speech. And actually give him a speech, don't duck it becuase you can't write one.
It's a shame becuase the show was obviously setting up a lot for the aborted fifth season - the Romulan War and the founding of the Federation. I get that TATV was trying to cover the latter, but it was a really poor way of doing it.
I'd have done it like a pseudo documentary or 22nd century rolling news coverage. Have the characters as talking heads describing the events running up to the momentous day when the UFP charter was signed. Use clips from "log recordings" to illustrate key events. And then at the end lead into Archer's speech. And actually give him a speech, don't duck it becuase you can't write one.
Y'know, that would have been a pretty good idea. Did you ever see the MASH ep that was done entirely as a 1950's news reel? It's an acclaimed episode. They could have done something like that as a "documentary" about how the Federation came to be, as if it were being presented on the day of the charter signing. Missed opportunities...
Fantastic idea! The final ending would be interviewing Trip and T'Pol set in 2186, 25 years of the founding of the Federation, with the interviewer asking them if the rumours of them being married were true. They reply no and once the interviewer has left, Trip picks up a holo pic of the couple dressed in Vulcan robes surrounding by two little children. Trip can say cheekily 'I thought Vulcans had stopped lying' and T'Pol can respond, 'A ceremony performed by an ancient American entertainer in Nevada is still not recognised by the Vulcan government'.
T.V goes black and credits roll..
T.V goes black and credits roll..
TATV aired after "Terra Prime". When it aired, I remember distinctly the voiceover before TATV saying, "And now, the series finale of Star Trek Enterprise!"
Stop trying to make it fit your head canon, OK? TATV aired as the finale and was and is considered the finale.
It's not my head canon. There's an interview with Manny Coto on the "Warp Five" podcast. I believe episode 100, where he says the same thing. There are also an interview with Braga on that show, and a 2 hour interview with Berman and Braga on Youtube where they talk about this and how they wanted to make a "Swan Song" episode as Trek was going off the air indefinitely.
So TATV does serve as an epilogue that (tries to) tie together the beginning and end of Berman Trek. Conversely, Coto says Terra Prime was his finale to the series, and it certainly is a "finale story", which thematically brings home all of the elements from the 4 seasons. And it even ends with a big speech.
I don't know what you saw 10+ years ago but we can still watch the trailer today, which shows clips from both episodes. "Enterprise two hour finale!"
Edit: Also, TATV was conceived as a regular season episode for s2 or 3 but was never produced.
So TATV does serve as an epilogue that (tries to) tie together the beginning and end of Berman Trek. Conversely, Coto says Terra Prime was his finale to the series, and it certainly is a "finale story", which thematically brings home all of the elements from the 4 seasons. And it even ends with a big speech.
I don't know what you saw 10+ years ago but we can still watch the trailer today, which shows clips from both episodes. "Enterprise two hour finale!"
Edit: Also, TATV was conceived as a regular season episode for s2 or 3 but was never produced.
I will do anything I like.
