Did married women serve in TOS era Starfleet?

[Greg Cox]

I watch lots of 60's era movies, and that is the common understanding. The attractive smart lady with the good career will gladly give that up to raise the children that are always conceived very quickly.

Yes -- and usually it was assumed that women were only using their careers as a means toward the end of meeting/attracting prospective husbands. E.g. you became a nurse in hopes of snagging a doctor as a husband, became a secretary to snag an executive, etc.

And you went to college to get your "Mrs." degree.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I watch lots of 60's era movies, and that is the common understanding. The attractive smart lady with the good career will gladly give that up to raise the children that are always conceived very quickly.

Yes -- and usually it was assumed that women were only using their careers as a means toward the end of meeting/attracting prospective husbands. E.g. you became a nurse in hopes of snagging a doctor as a husband, became a secretary to snag an executive, etc.

Doris Day's character in Pillow Talk is an interior decorator with an active social life, a good career and a nice apartment. But she is constantly reminded about how unhappy she must really be, puts up with some rather sketchy behavior from a random dude, and then ends up falling for Rock Hudson's womanizing songwriter after he lies to her and manipulates her.

Of course, he kicks her door in the climatic scene and carries her down the street wrapped in her electric blanket while everyone looks on with approval or indifference.

Got to love old movies.

 

[The Old Mixer]

One thing to consider is that while we envision linear social progress over the next few hundred years, in Star Trek's future, different cultural attitudes may have developed amongst frontier populations who were trying to establish colony worlds. This may conceivably have included a "back to basics" reemphasis on traditional gender roles.

 

[Mytran]

A sort of "1960s" part 2, you mean? It would explain a great many things!

 

[Jedi_Master]

One thing to consider is that while we envision linear social progress over the next few hundred years, in Star Trek's future, different cultural attitudes may have developed amongst frontier populations who were trying to establish colony worlds. This may conceivably have included a "back to basics" reemphasis on traditional gender roles.

Wouldn't near-instantaneous communication and homogeneous entertainment limit such regression?

 

[Timo]

Or then just "the military drags behind the civilian society in all things", with the gap growing wider than ever before in the next two centuries...

It may also be that Starfleet is a hodgepodge of ideologies: starship skippers seem to have awfully broad powers over pretty much everything, and they may run their ships like the kingdoms of mad kings. (Or queens, but some kings may well insist that the queens don't exist, and their word is final inside their kingdoms.)

Wouldn't near-instantaneous communication and homogeneous entertainment limit such regression?

Those might just bring all progress, social or otherwise, to a grinding halt. And not just any halt, but the one that Hollywood (or Bollywood, or whatever) is broadcasting when progress stops. Perhaps Star Trek reruns ultimately result in mankind being stuck with the 1960s for all eternity?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Christopher]

One thing to consider is that while we envision linear social progress over the next few hundred years, in Star Trek's future, different cultural attitudes may have developed amongst frontier populations who were trying to establish colony worlds. This may conceivably have included a "back to basics" reemphasis on traditional gender roles.

I've often thought that the need for high birth rates on colony worlds would tend to promote a more traditional, family-oriented role for women, at least until a stable population base had been established. That could potentially explain the gender values we see in TOS. Except that most human characters in TOS seem to be from Earth, not colony worlds.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They may have been able to remain on the ship, but just not in the same department.

This makes sense to me. The last two companies I've worked for have had rules preventing a person reporting to their spouse (or other close relation), so it wouldn't surprise me for Starfleet to have similar regulations.

Apparently Starfleet regs have changed by the 24th century, then, as Deanna is able to serve on the Titan which her husband commands. (Although counsellors aren't typically in the chain of command, "Disaster" notwithstanding.)

 

[Timo]

Except that most human characters in TOS seem to be from Earth, not colony worlds.

...Perhaps Earth is losing the population contest to the colonies so badly that it needs to whip the child-rearing machinery back to shape or be overrun? If it's one man, one vote, and Earth despite its inherent advantage of billions-strong population is "conservative" in the modern sense and has slowly but steadily falling birth rates, then the only way for Earth to prevail (short of nuking the colonies or curtailing their democratic rights) might be to implement an older variety of conservatism.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Old Mixer]

Wouldn't near-instantaneous communication and homogeneous entertainment limit such regression?

I wouldn't see it as an unenlightened "regression" to be fought...more of a shift in paradigm for people colonizing new worlds. Women could certainly still have careers and do what they wanted, but childbirth and family-raising would be highly encouraged and held in great esteem amongst frontier populations. Women on those worlds wouldn't mind being "just" wives and mothers, as they'd be performing a vital function on their worlds that the men simply couldn't.

Traditional gender roles were the norm for all of human history until the last century. People trying to start up civilizations on new worlds might have a different perspective than we on our overpopulated planet have today.

 

[Mytran]

In an underpopulated planet, there may be great financial incentives (or 23rd century equivalent) given for women to birth and raise several children as quickly as possible (in a stable home environment, of course)

 

[Timo]

On the other hand, star travel appears dirt cheap in Star Trek. A colony of 500 might grow more practically by receiving four further shipments of 500 than by goading the original couples or other trysts to procreate at high rate. Especially if the actual need for manpower would be at its highest during the founding years.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jedi_Master]

Wouldn't near-instantaneous communication and homogeneous entertainment limit such regression?

I wouldn't see it as an unenlightened "regression" to be fought...more of a shift in paradigm for people colonizing new worlds. Women could certainly still have careers and do what they wanted, but childbirth and family-raising would be highly encouraged and held in great esteem amongst frontier populations. Women on those worlds wouldn't mind being "just" wives and mothers, as they'd be performing a vital function on their worlds that the men simply couldn't.

Traditional gender roles were the norm for all of human history until the last century. People trying to start up civilizations on new worlds might have a different perspective than we on our overpopulated planet have today.

Regression tends to have a negative context, but in this case it simply means a return to a previously held cultural value: that of women being considered as the center of the home and caretakers of that home and any children.

In "Mudd's Women?", we did see a distant lithium mining colony that had three individuals who needed someone to care for them and their home, and the actions of H.F. Mudd seemed to indicate that there were more men throughout Federation territory who had that same need.

 

[GSchnitzer]

In "What Are Little Girls Made of?", we did see a distant lithium mining colony that had three individuals who needed someone to care for them and their home, and the actions of H.F. Mudd seemed to indicate that there were more men throughout Federation territory who had that same need.

(That was "Mudd's Women," not "What are Little Girls Made Of ?")

 

[CorporalCaptain]

In "What Are Little Girls Made of?", we did see a distant lithium mining colony that had three individuals who needed someone to care for them and their home, and the actions of H.F. Mudd seemed to indicate that there were more men throughout Federation territory who had that same need.

Different episode. You're thinking of "Mudd's Women."

 

[Jedi_Master]

In "What Are Little Girls Made of?", we did see a distant lithium mining colony that had three individuals who needed someone to care for them and their home, and the actions of H.F. Mudd seemed to indicate that there were more men throughout Federation territory who had that same need.

Different episode. You're thinking of "Mudd's Women."

Sorry. Tired today. Fixed in OP

 

[T'Girl]

On the other hand, star travel appears dirt cheap in Star Trek. A colony of 500 might grow more practically by receiving four further shipments of 500 than by goading the original couples or other trysts to procreate at high rate.

If all you wanted was more bodies to increase your population, then sure.

But if you intent was to employ your original 500 coloniest to create a unique culture free of outside contamination then your idea Timo would work against the concept. You would need offspring who you could then raise and educate in the new perfect utopian society.

So much better of course that the next star system over and their (supposed) new perfect utopian society.

Like they have a clue.

 

[Timo]

But if you just want a closed community, you don't need artificially forced, high-rate breeding. Just breed at your leisure; the colony will be no better or worse off for it.

If you do need pairs of hands, forced breeding won't give you those, because infants can't do meaningful work with their hands. And if you can wait until the kids grow up, then you probably have no incentive to have massive numbers of those kids to grow up, just "regular" numbers. A sudden baby boom would probably be much more trouble than worth anyway.

In "Mudd's Women?", we did see a distant lithium mining colony that had three individuals who needed someone to care for them and their home, and the actions of H.F. Mudd seemed to indicate that there were more men throughout Federation territory who had that same need.

In theory, the reverse might be true as well. The miners did all right as bachelors already, but they wanted companions; they worked in a line of business supposedly still benefiting from the greater physical strength of males, so they needed females imported for them. Perhaps Mudd would peddle attractive young men for women working at similarly isolated outposts performing work best suited for patient and careful females?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[T'Girl]

"Birth control would be mandatory for unmarried females, voluntary for married females. In keeping with the advanced state of the medical arts, as practiced aboard the Enterprise, a single monthly injection would be administered. A woman found to be pregnant would be given her choice of a medical discharge or rotation to a shore base for the remainder of her pregnancy."

So evidently it was contemplated that married females could be serving on starships, could become pregnant, and could be transferred to a shore base for the duration of their pregnancy.

Birth control would be mandatory for unmarried females, voluntary for married females.

While not specifically mentioning males, I wonder if similar guidelines would apply, as far as birth control being mandatory/voluntary depending on marital status. We know Kirk fathered at least two children, with Miramonie the conception followed Kirk's last monthly injection "running out."

There's also a suggestion that the woman would be allowed to return to starship duty following the end of her pregnancy.

 

[UssGlenn]

We also don't know when male birth control was invented. We know it exists in the 24th Century (Sisko forgot to take his). Did it exist during TOS? We haven't perfected it yet in the real world, though we seem to be getting closer.