Did Janeway Kill Tuvix?
- Thread starter Chief Medical Officer
- Start date
See when when it comes down to it. No wants to answer the question Janeway had to. Hiding behind a dubiously framed law is easier to talk about. It's easier to question what Tuvix was, did he have rights, was there a law in this circumstance. Who protected Tuvok and Neelix?
That's... reaching, lol.
I believe Tuvix was a combination of two entities that did have rights. Tuvix had no family. Tuvix had experiences leeched off the lives he wanted to keep down so he could further leech off them. Who says he had rights? However let's say all three had rights. Tuvix, Tuvok and Neelix. At any given time one or the other two can survive. It is indeed a choice. The Doctor created the means. Janeway made the choice. Doing nothing would have been a choice too.
Again I ask. If you were family to Tuvok or Neelix would you not want them saved? Would you want Janeway to bring them back?
It took Janeway 2 days to make up her mind about this.
That means that there were good reasons not to kill Tuvix, that almost swayed her.
He had a leg to stand on, therefore to Kathryn he was real, and she was a mmmmmmmmmurderer.
That means that there were good reasons not to kill Tuvix, that almost swayed her.
He had a leg to stand on, therefore to Kathryn he was real, and she was a mmmmmmmmmurderer.
If it had taken the Doctor three years to develop the treatment, would Tuvix have no right to his own existence for the entirety of that time? At what point does he gain the right to exist without a knife potentially hanging over him?
I think it was another poster who suggested that if Tuvix was never going to be granted the right to exist then it was cruel and unusual to grant him the pretense. Better to keep him in stasis at that point.
I think it was another poster who suggested that if Tuvix was never going to be granted the right to exist then it was cruel and unusual to grant him the pretense. Better to keep him in stasis at that point.
Sure, I'd want them back. Wouldn't kill an innocent person to do it though. Because I'm a fucking human being, not an animal driven solely by my goddamn id.
The conundrum in Tuvix is not a new idea. It's the plot to bloody Universal's old Mummy movies from the 30's, for chrissakes. It's just the trait of 'will kill innocents to make me feel better' is usually a trait found in villains.
There was no pretence.
In the beginning, Tuvix was fine with being split, and the doctor persisted looking for a cure for another 31 days, assuming that Tuvix hadn't changed his mind.
You are allowed to change your mind about that sort of thing. And just from my experience with considering major surgery, doctors are usually pretty persistent in making sure that there's no hint of a future lawsuit change of mind.
The bad parts of withdrawing don't even exist in the Trek universe . There's no money, and infinite resources.
The bad parts of withdrawing don't even exist in the Trek universe . There's no money, and infinite resources.
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It seems likely that in the beginning Tuvix was fine with being split because in the beginning he assumed it was a -very- temporary condition and hadn't had time to fully process his existence.
I'd forgotten that. 'It' got what was coming to it.
You heard it here first kids.
Don't ever withdraw consent. Coz if you do, you deserve to have your rights and body physically violated. You lead them on, after all!
What a...noble sentiment. Assuming you hail from Westros.
Yes, this conversation is often about rape, and/or abortion. Carry on.
Was Tuvix actually killed? People keep saying it was murder, but was he murdered? Did he die? That should be the debate, as it may not be ascertainable. Another question that has been hardly discussed here is Tuvok and Neelix' rights. By allowing Tuvix to remain, is Janeway allowing them to be killed? If you believe Janeway "killed" Tuvix, then you have to say yes, she would have allowed them to die, when she could have saved them.
But yes, whether anyone ever died would have to be determined before anyone can go making certain judgments, and it can't be determined.
But yes, whether anyone ever died would have to be determined before anyone can go making certain judgments, and it can't be determined.
Obviously not.
Eh, 'reading between the lines' isn't really necessary. 'Consent' and 'withdrawral' really are the correct terms for medical situations. Hence: 'consent' forms
Not that the shared terminology is a coincidence. Coz, you know...a medical procedure without consent is a rape, assault, or murder. All three, if the victim is really unlucky.
Hence: serious business.
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Tuvix had no rights, he was a holding tank for two legitimate life patterns.
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