Did Janeway Kill Tuvix?

[BillJ]

For starters and in general, she has the authority to use deadly force in certain circumstances with the ship's weapons. That's just one example.

She just can't go firing on any ship. They have to be a threat to her ship. Tuvix posed no threat.

Although the Doctor determined that his ethical subroutines could not allow him to perform the procedure, no one stepped forward that I recall and protested the action as being against Starfleet regulations. If Tuvix had, as he claimed, Tuvok's knowledge as security chief, I'd've expected him to put that forward as an argument in his favor, if Janeway were actually exceeding her authority. His appeal was primarily to the ethical issue of right and wrong. The episode provides no reason to assume that Janeway is exceeding her authority.

Janeway is 70,000 light years from home. She is the final authority. She would've never made the same decision in the Alpha Quadrant. So I'd say she didn't have the authority. She did it anyway. Like she violated other Starfleet regulations in the Delta Quadrant.

Tuvix, with all of Tuvok's knowledge of Janeway, likely knew appealing on regulations was a fool's errand.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

She just can't go firing on any ship.

Nor did I claim otherwise.

Tuvix posed no threat.

His existence was a direct threat to Tuvok and Neelix.

 

[BillJ]

His existence was a direct threat to Tuvok and Neelix.

They were dead.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

They were dead.

We just went full circle! Hurray!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tom Riker got a commission in Starfleet, ergo transporter accidents have similar rights to regular people. He stood a regular trial on Cardassia, so he's completely a real person. Do you really think that the Cardassian legal system would try to afford Tom personhood that he didn't deserve, when they treat conventionally constructed persons like cattle shit?

 

[BillJ]

We just went full circle! Hurray!

Been going around in circles since the episode aired.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think Tuvix was a person.

 

[Trekkin]

His existence was a direct threat to Tuvok and Neelix.

Janeway's existence is a direct threat to the Borg. And unlike Tuvix, she's pretty proactive about being said threat.

So where's the rush to defend their actions every time they try to knock her off? It's needs of the many!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Janeway's existence is a direct threat to the Borg. And unlike Tuvix, she's pretty proactive about being said threat.

So where's the rush to defend their actions every time they try to knock her off? It's needs of the many.

You don't understand the Borg.

What we have seen so far is the Peace Corps version of the Borg.

They are the good guys.

They walk up to you slowly, to your face, and help you.

Even if you're too dumb to want their help.

Or shooting at them.

The Borg want to help you and everyone else, and they don't understand why anyone wouldn't want to be helped by them, because it's awesome to be Borg, and they know that your life will be better and less stupid if you accept their help when it is benevolently offered.

(Pretend I'm not being sarcastic.)

Now imagine the Borg if they knew that they were hated douche bag assholes, who were effective soldiers, who didn't want to take any losses, or never assume that you were going to welcome assimilation. If the Borg knew that resistance was inevitable, how they assimilated planets would be a fast sneaky military campaign where they smash and lay waste to all opposition, and then assimilate the survivors, after they have been left without food for a week.

 

[Trekkin]

I see you've read the book where Janeway was the Borg Queen.

 

[BillJ]

If you think about it, Janeway's actions are similar to Rudy Ransom's in "Equinox". Destroying a life form to improve her chances of getting home.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I couldn't get through it, and I usually adore Peter David.

Although ebooks are harder to focus on than a physical book.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If you think about it, Janeway's actions are similar to Rudy Ransom's in "Equinox". Destroying a life form to improve her chances of getting home.

Rudy killed the first one by accident.

The rest died because they were stupid enough to keep trying to get revenge on Equinox by head butting the shields and charging at ####ers with fully charged hand phasers. Trillions of space dolphins might have died head butting Equinox's shields, but we are worried about the dozen or so that Rudolf turned into space gasoline, who more or less also died because their leader is an asshole who doesn't care how many of it's people have to die to destroy their enemies?

If the space dolphins had stopped attacking Equinox, the ship would have run out of power and the crew would die slowly, since Rudy still needed 66 more space dolphin corpses to get home when he met up with Voyager.

If they were chasing him, they are dummies, if they had been chasing him for hundreds of light years, and would have chased him all the way to Earth, then Ransom is the dummy.

If Ransom was going in circles and fishing for Space Dolphins, specifically because if he burned full tilt, and they couldn't keep up with Equinox, and then Ransom wouldn't have any more Dolphin juice to pour into their intermix chamber, so he must have been going in circles, especially since Janeway went all the way back to where Ransom found the translation device, and begun this safari, in a matter of hours.

Now think back to The Next Emanation in season 2. Janeway found corpses that would convert into fuel, and decided not to use them because it's sacrilegious and tacky to loot crypts.

 

[Nyotarules]

I couldn't get through it, and I usually adore Peter David.

Although ebooks are harder to focus on than a physical book.

That story was hilarious! Star Trek when one is stoned...

 

[Lynx]

Since Tuvix was the combination between Tuvok and Neelix, did she really kill another creature? Or merely restore what should have been there in the first place?

The episode certainly poses a lot of ethical questions, but it's not clear if what Janeway was doing was killing one life form or restoring 2 others.

Thoughts?

No, she didn't!
She just restored Tuvok and Neelix back to normal.

 

[Refuge]

No, she didn't!
She just restored Tuvok and Neelix back to normal.

Perfect answer.

 

[Refuge]

Of course there are other ways to look it, even valid ways. And that's not the definition of murder.

It is weird when people give their opinion and then say there is no other way to look at it.

What is with that, lol??

 

[MacLeod]

The Doctor refused to do it because it was ethically wrong, I suspect most of the other staff thought it was wrong and perhaps even Janeway herself knew what she was doing was wrong.

Was Tuvix a unique being in his own right? If you believe he was then he is entitled to all the rights granted to those within Federation territory. Terminiting his existance violates those rights.

For example just as we take a risk everyday we cross the road, drive our cars etc.. The use of the Transporter comes with risks that something might go wrong and you might not arrive at your destination. By using the transporter you accept those risks.

 

[Refuge]

The Doctor developed the means..

It wasn't wrong.

 

[Guy Gardener]

B'Elanna had the same deal as Tuvok going on, from faces, and continued to have the same thing going on for the rest of her life.

She was split into two components.

One of them died.

She's half a woman, wondering why she feels so empty inside.

Transfusing the Human Half with Klingon DNA, is not the same as doubling the psychology of her mind that had been cleaved in two, just like getting a blood transfusion in real life doesn't give you half of the donors soul.