Did Future's End Wipe The Eugenics Wars Timeline?

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Spock and Nero go back in time, Vulcan is destroyed, history is changed.

Does Voyager still send Braxton back in time, thus triggering the computer revolution as we know it?

Does the Enterprise E still come back in time to help with First Contact?

The divergence occurs in 2233, as per ST09. As of that instant, both the Prime and Kelvin timelines are possible futures. Therefore, anything that happens IN those futures will still happen. Including anyone travelling back in time FROM those futures.

Theoretically, travellers from both timelines could even meet each other, if they came back to any point in time prior to 2233.

And Data's head is still underneath San Francisco.

 

[Voth commando1]

Didn't the eugenics wars occur in third world country's anyway-IIRC Khan controlled North Africa, the Middle East, and parts of Asia-who says the US was even that greatly affected-or the beta canon-the conflict was secret and no one(except top government/corporate personnel) were even aware of it

 

[jaime]

The divergence occurs in 2233, as per ST09. As of that instant, both the Prime and Kelvin timelines are possible futures. Therefore, anything that happens IN those futures will still happen. Including anyone travelling back in time FROM those futures.

Theoretically, travellers from both timelines could even meet each other, if they came back to any point in time prior to 2233.

And Data's head is still underneath San Francisco.

I like to think they found it when Khan crashed. That would put the fox among the chickens. And lead to an inevitable Brent spiner cameo. Lol.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Didn't the eugenics wars occur in third world country's anyway-IIRC Khan controlled North Africa, the Middle East, and parts of Asia

Yep.

who says the US was even that greatly affected

It wasn't.

Why is it when humans go undercover on a planet, they get highly advanced (yet harmless) cosmetic surgery but when Vulcans go undercover on Earth... they get a hat?

Tuvok doesn't need a disguise. As long as his ears are covered, he can easily pass for human.

As is the case with most Vulcans - Spock, for example. ('mechanical rice picker' notwithstanding ) Also the Vulcans from "Carbon Creek" easily disguised themselves as human, with just simple headgear.

 

[MAGolding]

It may have been delayed. In the DS9 episode where Bashir gets unmasked as a superman (ha, ha), when pronouncing sentence upon his dad, Admiral Whatshisface gives a 200 years ago figure IIRC. It certainly wasn't the 90s according to Whatshisface.

Unless Admiral whatshisface was using years that are much longer than Earth years. Why do you assume that all Star Trek characters always use years of the same length?

 

[MAGolding]

Braxton gets sent to the late sixties; his presence immediately impacts upon Henry starling.

Voyager -- existing in a reality where the Eugenics Wars occurred -- is pulled back too but ends up in the NEW non-eugenics wars 1990's (this reality having been created by Braxton's earlier presence).

Starling sets in motion, the technology age we're currently experiencing. Something obviously happens/happened that changes things slightly and he is removed from the equation (replaced by Steve Jobs, Bill Gates etc).

Hence the Eugenics Wars did not happen. The 90's that we know (a similar version at least) replaced that reality.

Also, what the hell kind of temporal policy is... they caused a time problem so... let's just kill them.



Was Braxton already time crazy at this point? I find it hard to believe that the temporal integrity commission would just go about killing people to fix time.

Sidenote: Why is it when humans go undercover on a planet, they get highly advanced (yet harmless) cosmetic surgery but when Vulcans go undercover on Earth... they get a hat?

Feel free to bring up anything else related to Future's End.

You are assuming that everybody always uses the same calendar when discussing Earth history. But the 1990s in the "Space Seed" calendar are obviously in a different calendar than the 1990s of "Future's End" or the 1990s of "where No Man Has Gone Before".

 

[Greg Cox]

When I was writing the EW books, I pretty much stayed clear of "Future's End" and assumed that the EW did not reach California. And, honestly, if you were to beam down to Los Angeles during the height of WWII you wouldn't find yourself in the middle of a war zone, even though a global war was being furiously waged elsewhere in the world. If you paid attention, you might see some newspaper headlines about the war, some billboards urging you to buy war bonds, or whatever, but no ruins or rubble or battlefields. The Voyager crew, who were occupied with their own crisis, can be forgiven for not reading about the EW in USA Today--which was probably paying more attention to the O.J. Trial or Tanya Harding anyway.

I also remember that my editor, John Ordover, and I spent much of an afternoon trying to figure out whether the altered timeline of "Future's End" survived the end of those episode or if it was wiped out entirely by the end. Can't remember what we decided although we went back and forth on it until our heads hurt.

(Was that really sixteen years ago?)

 

[Guy Gardener]

The presence of a model DY-Sleeper Ship in Rain's office shows a greater similarity to the TOS era timeline than one would at first assume from the events of Futures End.

The conflated Braxton in Relativity showed that grampy continued to exist after hot young Braxton fixed everything. Therefore that particular 1996 did not vanish when Voyager did.

Earth from Enterprise's Carpenter Street seems a hell of a lot more like it spun off from Future's End 1996, than anything we might have imagined from watching the Space Seed for the first time.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You are assuming that everybody always uses the same calendar when discussing Earth history. But the 1990s in the "Space Seed" calendar are obviously in a different calendar than the 1990s of "Future's End" or the 1990s of "where No Man Has Gone Before".

Why would Kirk use a different calendar than Janeway?

 

[F. King Daniel]

The presence of a model DY-Sleeper Ship in Rain's office shows a greater similarity to the TOS era timeline than one would at first assume from the events of Futures End.

Didn't she also have an action figure of one of the aliens from "The Cage"? Maybe she was just a fan of Star Trek.

*universe implodes*

 

[David B]

Well...it seems that DTI shows up whenever a temporal incursion happens...why didn't they already see the problem and go back and get him before this got any farther? The U.S.S. Relativity that they were on, was already in the FUTURE. Obviously they had the means to transport to the past and get him the moment he was stranded AND clear of interfering with anyone? They sent Janeway to the past to prevent him from beginning THAT chain of events...

 

[marsh8472]

The events of "Future's End" took a predestination approach. This ramifications of the theory would imply that the eugenics wars as quoted to have happened in the 1990's in TOS is part of a different timeline than TNG, VOY, and DS9. But in all 3 series we see connections to TOS timeline as being one and the same TNG ("Relics"), VOY ("Flashback"), and DS9 ("Trials and Tribulations")

 

[Guy Gardener]

Predestinaiton implies a fixed timeline.

We saw the 31st century 200 years before Janeway as born.

 

[Prax]

Wrath of Khan places the Eugenics war 200 years prior to wrath of Khan. Would that be the 2070's or 80's? Maybe WWIII and the EW are linked and the 1992/1996 dates are wrong

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Wrath of Khan places the Eugenics war 200 years prior to wrath of Khan.

And also mentions 1996. So it is not even consistent with itself.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Rounding.

GREAT LEADERS round.

Assholes with behavioural problems fight to the last man, to prove that $1.99 is not $2.00.

 

[Prax]

Rounding.

GREAT LEADERS round.

Assholes with behavioural problems fight to the last man, to prove that $1.99 is not $2.00.

But $2.00 is Not $3.00

 

[Mytran]

Khan asked Kirk how long he'd been sleeping. Factoring in time dilation on the demi-lightspeed Botany Bay, Kirk estimated..."two centuries ". Khan never bothered to delve any further.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm guessing that because of the SPX available, that the Adrift ship looked like it was just hanging there in space, when really the Enterprise would have had to have been motoring to match pace with it, if it really was moving at a respectable fraction of the speed of light.

Someone put that ship there in Kirk's path, I suspect, because they thought that it would be funny.

 

[Voth commando1]

Given the secrecy of the augments and the conflicts between them and other human governments I imagine it was top secret-a classified war in which lots of conflicts, crises, and diplomatic maneuvering in the nineties were a part/front of.

I don't think governments would want their populaces to know they were waging war against super human, tyrannical evil monsters who also happened to be battling each other.

The Augments would have an interest in the conflict(s) being secret as well because if their nature and power revealed to the world at large governments would be given free reign to hunt them down and destroy them.