Did Future's End Wipe The Eugenics Wars Timeline?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by hux, May 15, 2016.

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Did Future's End Wipe The Eugenics Wars Timeline?

  1. Yes - What a brilliant explanation (I wish I was smart like hux).

    21.6%
  2. No - That doesn't work at all (hux, you muppet).

    48.6%
  3. Maybe - Don't Care - What? - Biscuits - Perhaps - Stop asking me stuff!

    29.7%
  1. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think it's problematic to try to realistically reconcile real-world events with the line in "Space Seed" about whole populations being bombed out of existence, as well as one quarter of the Earth's population being under the absolute rule of one particular person who never had a real-life equivalent.

    And I rationalize the "200 years ago" line as a brain fart on the part of Admiral Whatshisname who misremembered the details from his high school history class from years ago.

    Kor
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
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  2. Alright.. Eugenics = breeding.

    We have a subclass of people who have been born into politics and wealth, and they continue to breed and more children are born into the subclass of wealth-and-power-without-earning-it.

    Eventually these people lose touch with the common person and become obsessed with amassing massive amounts of wealth beyond the comprehension of ordinary people. To do so they play games with entire national economies, manipulate markers, move companies (and millions of jobs and livelihoods) around like game pieces, provoke armed conflicts over mineral and drilling rights, and have a merry old time playing "the game."

    This culminates in political manipulation on a truly massive scale, to the point where the very government processes of nations is just another part of the game.

    Gradually things come to a head over the decades resulting in two slightly different political parties backed by different sources of money -- entire nations worth. One particular country becomes a battleground via politics... out of spite a departing president sets events in motion to trip up the incoming president. This results in a massive terrorist attack, thousands of lives are lost. Remember to these special snowflakes, the lives of the ordinary do not matter, they are just resources to be manipulated.

    Defeated in the polls that party puts plans in motion to defeat their rivals using spying, and other underhanded and unethical methods... and this results in a stunning upset the next election cycle. The defeated party puts events into motion bringing the country into potential conflict with it's biggest rival... Meanwhile the media has manipulated the masses to the verge of rioting over race, gender-issues and other nonsensical things like sports scores, the antics celebrities and so on so forth.

    The incoming president comes into this mess, totally unconcerned. His opponents have seen through his deceptions and underhanded behavior, and set him up a fine mess indeed. But he is unconcerned as his true masters have his back, and he rolls up his sleeves and begins playing the game..

    -------------

    So we didn't miss out on anything, we are living it now, it's been ongoing since the 1990s and probably before. Ever wonder why we have lifetime politicians who don't die? They can afford the technology to stay alive forever if need be. :)

    Yes this may hit a bit close to home for some, but it's an interesting side trip, and a potential reboot of the concept of the Eugenics Wars. We have here wars being fought by proxy on behalf of those with absurd wealth and power, and no sense of responsibility as they have never been outside of their little world of wealth and privilege. Throw in some genetic manipulation and selective breeding and presto.
     
  3. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm sure this has been retconned, but the "Eugenics War" as told in space seed, was Eugenics, as in selective breeding. As in, Khan was like a Belgian Horse. Eugenics was popular idea from the 19th century onward, and became very controversial in the 1930s-1960s. I think the whole "reprogramming DNA/augments" came from either ds9 or ENT.

    Side note: In space seed, they do say that these guys took over 40 countries simultaneously, but that could've easily occurred in the near east, africa, or Asia, and not have visibly affected Los Angeles, or the US.
     
  4. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Space Seed refered to "selective breeding" and "controlled genetics."
    In TWOK, Khan was described as "a product of late twentieth century genetic engineering."

    Whatever the exact method, it was enough to create somebody with five times the strength of a regular human. :eek:

    Kor
     
  5. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    I prefer the DS9/ENT genetic manipulation retcon myself.
     
  6. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Blame Admiral Marcus for getting back at the guy who got his daughter pregnant.
     
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  7. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Because politicians at the United Earth government often seek symbolic instead of practical goals. Symbolic goals, like, for example, changing the official United Earth calendar to the calendar favored by their constituents.

    So sometimes the United Earth government changes the official calendar and people joke that suddenly they are decades, centuries, or millennia older or younger depending on the change.

    In AD 1888 King Chulalongkorn of Siam/Thailand decreed the Rattanakosin Era (RE) dating from 6 April 1782. In AD 1912, or 130 RE King Vajiravudah (Rama VI) changed to the Buddhist Era dating from 543 BC, thus making the year 2455 BE. And Thai people could joke that they were now 2,325 years older.

    In AD 1976 the King of Kings of Iran changed the epoch of the Iranian calendar from the Flight of Mohammed in AD 622 to the beginning of the reign of Cyrus the Great. Thus the year changed from 1355 to 2535. The calendar was changed back in AD 1979.

    The United Earth government rules a much more diverse population that should have much more diverse ideas about various matters including the proper calendar for United Earth.

    So in the era of Star Trek people are used to the United Earth government changing the official United Earth calendar to please various pressure groups. And they are used to historic dates changing with the calendar.
     
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  8. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Space Seed" establishes that Khan ruled a quarter of earth from 1992 to 1996 in the "Space Seed" or SS calendar. In WOK Khan says:

    If, allowing for human vagueness, 200 years could be 100 to 300, the date of WOK should be 2092 SS to 2296 SS.

    And:

    If Khan's people pledged to obey him about 1992 SS to 1996 SS, Terrell would have been born about 2092 SS to 2296 SS. If he was aged about 30 to 60, WOK would happen about 2122 SS to 2356 SS. Combining the two date ranges places WOK about 2122 SS to 2296 SS.

    The opening credits say:

    If that means the 23rd century SS, that would be from 2201 SS to 2300 SS, thus putting WOK in 2201 SS to 2296 SS.
     
  9. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh my goodness...
     
  10. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    In the Romulan wormhole episode they use the Gregorian calendar. I imagine Vulcans, Andorians, and other Federation species have their own calendars but apparently for humans the Gregorian remains.
     
  11. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    @MAGolding, remember when Kirk looks at the bottle of Romulan Ale and says "2283"... ;)
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Admiral Ross said Khan hit the big time 200 (non specific) years ago in the Earth year 2373... Which tracks back to the earth date 2173

    When it was actually 381 (Earth) years from 2373 (the present in Our man Bashir) to 1992 (The Earth year Khan took over Asia).

    Ross might have been raised on a different planet, a colony world where it took 695 days to go around it's sun, and the Universal translator is racist.
     
  13. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Who can be beaten to the floor with the equivalent of a policeman's baton, welded by "a regular human."
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Fall out.

    Eugenic fallout.

    In the 1990s, there would have been a lot of Supermen who's only job was just to screw their way from one side of the planet to the other enriching the genepool.

    Literature told Kirk that Khan was supposed to be 5 times stronger than he was, but Kirk wasn't at all aware that the new normal in 2268 was 3 time stronger than any baseline shmuck from the 20th century.

    ;)

    (This was hinted at in a novel I read years ago.)
     
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  15. jaime

    jaime Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Regular is such a vague term it doesn't matter much. It's not a huge leap to have Khan exist in the 90s. He does t even have to be a president or similar, he could just as easy be a behind the scenes leader. How many employees does google now have, directly or indirectly? What about the concept of shadow governments? How big is china? What would the population percentage be if Khan was a gaddafi like figure who somehow unified a chunk of the Middle East and Africa in the Trek universe?

    Of course the eugenics thing and the nineties date basically points to him being a product of something like escaped Nazi scientists, and his name may simply be an affectation from one of those scientists....Khan is as likely to be South American with Western European roots as anything (or, one of my pet theories that covers both versions of Khan, a bunch of right-wing nutters and Nazis setting up camp in India/Pakistan during the fall of the Raj using the upheaval to cover their settling in to pursue their program....Khan would be born in the fifties, after all. He is like the Big Boss / Twin Snakes of the Trek universe in some ways. A product of wacky Cold War science.)
     
  16. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Vice Admiral Moderator

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    Star Trek is not based on our future it belongs to another reality far far away.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Line is "the Last of the Tyrants to be overthrown".

    It wasn't just a war of mundanes vs. Supermen.

    The Supermen fought each other as well and did not co-operate so well.

    Khan may have had the largest empire, but if there were dozens of other Supermen building walls around their vast kingdoms, until not a lot of the old world would have remained in (possibly?) 1994 before the tide turned.

    OOOOOOH!

    They changed it to Augments, because it's sexist to say Supermen, and too long winded to continuously say "Supermen and Superwomen". I'm amazed that I did not see that before now.

    :ouch:
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  18. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Klingons also use the Gregorian Calendar, as they're always talking about 2309 being the finest vintage bloodwine.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They disingenuously mean just before midnight yesterday, becuase the are bragging about the blood being from a fresh kill.
     
  20. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If there is really blood in that stuff, then they really are savages. And Sisko and the gang shouldn't be drinking it