Did Enterprise have to grow on anyone else?

[Willow]

Oh, and I would like to add that the MACO killed on the Xindi weapon was Forbes. I always felt bad for him, because when the Enterprise assault team returned to Enterprise, Reed mentions that they destroyed the weapon, but lost Archer.

And no mention of Forbes. Which seemed very odd to me that Reed wouldn't even mention that loss, considering how torn up he was about Hawkins. (And the loss of personnel in general)

 

[JeffinOakland]

It definitely had to grow on me. Like Voyager and TNG and most tv shows, the first season was very rough and unpolished. It got better as time went on and TPTB started to get a feel for the actors' abilities and what the fans wanted. Seasons 3 & 4 are far superior to Seasons 1 & 2 but that's not at all uncommon.

 

[eyeresist]

I don't think spoiler tags are really necessary at this late stage.

how do the Sphere makers, defeated 300 years before future guy, have Daniels level future tech?

It's a mystery. Actually, given what we saw in Harbinger, I think the sphere builders are from another dimension, so the question of having the right tech in the right time period doesn't really apply.

 

[wayoung]

OK, so I've reached the point where Enterprise is supposed to be really good - Paul Atreides vs. Sam Beckett.

Poor Alec Newman. His career never really took off like James McAvoy's but I thought he was a fine actor.

Edit: Ugggh, seven minutes in and they're already creating plot holes.
Archer: "Along with genetically engineered embryos left over from the eugenics wars. It's been kept from the public for obvious reasons."
Travis: "I remember Song's trial, he wouldn't say what he did with the embryos he stole."

C'mon Enterprise, either the embryos are secret or they're a public part of the trial, it can't be both!

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

OK, so I've reached the point where Enterprise is supposed to be really good - Paul Atreides vs. Sam Beckett.

Poor Alec Newman. His career never really took off like James McAvoy's but I thought he was a fine actor.

Edit: Ugggh, seven minutes in and they're already creating plot holes.
Archer: "Along with genetically engineered embryos left over from the eugenics wars. It's been kept from the public for obvious reasons."
Travis: "I remember Song's trial, he wouldn't say what he did with the embryos he stole."

C'mon Enterprise, either the embryos are secret or they're a public part of the trial, it can't be both!

You're straining at gnats to find something to complain about. "Kept from the public" doesn't mean unknown within Starfleet. I think a bias is showing here.

 

[wayoung]

I quoted right from the episode. Travis is speaking about his trial from ten years ago. Not a rumour among Starfleet personnel.

I'm fine with occasional continuity errors. They happen in any fictional universe. Hell, we can't even keep reality straight (hence the Mandela Effect whacko's) but I don't think asking the show to keep their story straight between two sequential lines is too much to ask.

Edit to add: I'm not hate watching the show to prove some meaningless point on the Internet as your "bias" comment would suggest. I gave up on it early on in its original run and heard it gto much better so I'm giving it another chance now that it's on Netflix. I WANT it to be good. I WANT to enjoy it. And it has got better. But it still has a lot of problems. Hopefully it will continue to improve as I'm told is the case.

 

[locutus101]

What happened to the cowboys of the expanse? Did they ever get back to Earth, if so when?

 

[wayoung]

What happened to the cowboys of the expanse? Did they ever get back to Earth, if so when?

I liked that episode, nice throwback to TOS

 

[eyeresist]

As I recall, Archer told them he'd check on them later, when his mission was over. This falls into the whole "So what happened with the Xindi?" question. Maybe there was a season 3.5 we missed.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Actually, I never gave the Xindi a 2nd thought, at the time ... I was even kind of surprised at seeing them in Archer's dream sequence, where-ever he was, that time. Rock climbing, I believe. It was like .... who the hell are these dudes? OH!!! Hahaha. ... The Xindi just never left that huge of an impression on me, I'm sorry. I liked how dangerous they were, at first, but the more we got to know them, it was like ... yeah, I'm happy not knowing what happened to the Xindi, after all.

 

[wayoung]

As I recall, Archer told them he'd check on them later, when his mission was over. This falls into the whole "So what happened with the Xindi?" question. Maybe there was a season 3.5 we missed.

He's as bad at follow up as Kirk was. Maybe they evolved into the gangster planet, the whole world being based on a book being the federations excuse to cover up that they forgot about them. 100 years from wild west to Chicago Gangsters. Because there are fewer people it took them a little longer to get there

 

[wayoung]

I'm on The Augments now. I like the reference to the Briar Patch, and that it is on the other side of Klingon space, going along with that old theory that the Federation is patchwork all over the alpha and beta quadrants, not just one solid territory. Also liked Muad'dib arguing that they should go find Khan.

 

[eyeresist]

He's as bad at follow up as Kirk was. Maybe they evolved into the gangster planet, the whole world being based on a book being the federations excuse to cover up that they forgot about them.

Or maybe a neighbouring planet exploded, wrecking their environment, and then they got a hold of a Genesis device...

 

[T'Nara]

Since all the Star Trek series & episodes are put in Netflix a couple of months ago I have been on a journey re-watching the whole thing according to the in-universe chronology. Naturally I started with Enterprise and I fell in love again with NX-01 and Archer's crew.

 

[wayoung]

So I'm on episode 13 of season four. Overall, I'd agree that the mini - arc format works the best for the show but it still hasn't shook many of the problems it had previously. The writing and directing still aren't particularly engaging. Characters are still uninteresting and the action scenes still have no sense of danger, and are thus meaningless.

I enjoy the idea that humans rose to prominence not despite their late entry to space, but because of it. The other species inability to work together due to past hostilities and Earth's default position as mediator/leader because there is no one else is a good explanation. The Romulan interference with the Vulcans matches some personal fan theories I've always had - that at the highest levels the Vulcans always knew about the Romulans, there were always back door dealings, and, this is my personal theory, the Romulans War was an attempt by Romulans to eliminate a Vulcan ally in their ongoing cold war - think the Vietnam war in our own recent history.

Focusing more on existing species and the building of the Federation is also a good way to go.

Maybe if the series had started here the show could have grown into something much better than it was.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Actually, I never gave the Xindi a 2nd thought, at the time ... I was even kind of surprised at seeing them in Archer's dream sequence, where-ever he was, that time. Rock climbing, I believe. It was like .... who the hell are these dudes? OH!!! Hahaha. ... The Xindi just never left that huge of an impression on me, I'm sorry. I liked how dangerous they were, at first, but the more we got to know them, it was like ... yeah, I'm happy not knowing what happened to the Xindi, after all.

It wasn't so much that I cared, but that our crew spent a year of their lives taking this threat down that having one little episode following up on what happened to them, or even the crew that Archer stranded in space, wasn't asking too much.

As I mentioned in another thread, the biggest downfall was not letting go ENT and it's few original contribution to Star Trek stand on their own sometimes.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Oh, I agree, completely!

However, knowing that Season 4 was definitely the last, I can't see them being concerned with proper closure to storylines that failed to $ave the show from its decline in ratings. When Rick Berman let one of his STAR TREK fan producers take over the show, though, that was a nice thing to do, I thought. At least ENT got to wrap up with a lot of care and affection, rather than sort of abandoned, as TOS was, in its final season. Having said that, I don't believe that loving a show, on the level of a fan, has that much to do with how great it's going to be, as William Shatner, Nick Meyer & JJ Abrams demonstrated.

ENT ended up doing a lot to "lead up" to TOS, in the last lap, and the fans love that kind of shit (though I don't), but those shows were not as fun as the offerings of Season 3. The augments had so much incredible potential. But after they took over the Bird of Prey, all the show cares about is, "oh! We've got BRENT SPINER!!!" And the rest of the time, we watch a bunch of young, superpeople with potential for great mischief only being concerned over ... BRENT SPINER!!! Yeah, Season 4 really was problematic, in so many ways.

 

[locutus101]

He's as bad at follow up as Kirk was. Maybe they evolved into the gangster planet, the whole world being based on a book being the federations excuse to cover up that they forgot about them. 100 years from wild west to Chicago Gangsters. Because there are fewer people it took them a little longer to get there

Well, except that the gangster planet were aliens and these were humans.

 

[wayoung]

Well, except that the gangster planet were aliens and these were humans.

Were they? I was being flippant in my other post, but I thought the gangsters were another set of Humans transplanted there by Preservers (I know they became gangsters based on the book later on). I thought that was the general rescinded explanation for why Kirk and Co kept running into species that were human in all but name on other planets. I freely admit I could be wrong though.

 

[locutus101]

Were they? I was being flippant in my other post, but I thought the gangsters were another set of Humans transplanted there by Preservers (I know they became gangsters based on the book later on). I thought that was the general rescinded explanation for why Kirk and Co kept running into species that were human in all but name on other planets. I freely admit I could be wrong though.

No I am positive, they were aliens, with exceptional adapting abilities, as Spock said, I think.