Design the Next Enterprise

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Shikarnov, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    With the what now?
     
  2. Fuzzy Modem

    Fuzzy Modem Commander Red Shirt

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  3. JES

    JES Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But the difference is that most of these designs are brand new. Take FuzzyModem's Frontier class and your Legacy class for example: most, but not all details have been finalized, so finding an alternative class name probably isn't completely out of the question. But Adam Heinbuch's Frontier class and Galen's Legacy class have been around for years.

    The point I'm trying to make is that I would like all four of these designs to share the same universe, but that won't be possible if they share the same class name. If an artist chooses to stick with the class name already chosen, I will respect his/her decision to do so, but since a class name can usually only be used once, that means I have to choose which design will exists in my vision.

    By pointing out that a name has already been used, I hope to avoid this situation.


    Well, I don't do exhaustive searches either, nor do I expect you to do so. It all comes from looking at as many different designs as I could find, and my memory. If a design is good enough, I remember the class name, and to not use it. 'Kitbashes' that are mostly made in Photoshop or with cut and paste do not count as far as I'm concerned; I'm talking about designs that obviously had tons of thought, work, and love put into them, designs that deserve a place in the Trek universe, even if it is only fanon.

    For example, your Sojourner class might be incomplete, but it is already a quality 3D model as far as I'm concerned, so I wouldn't use it even if I came up with a design that I felt was perfect for the name. Unless you said that you were going to abandon the project or use a different name, it is on my do not use list.

    Besides, I have all you guys to help me come up with another good name anyhow (which I predict is probably going to happen more than once in the future).

    I'm pretty sure I would remember if there was a design that already uses that name. If there is one, its probably just some Photoshop kitbash that is not using the name, but simply wasting it. So there is no need to change the name Rush. In fact, Rush is a good, creative choice for a class name, because it isn't as obvious of a name choice than others I could think of.

    I can search Ship Schematics myself if you don't believe me.
     
  4. Belisarius

    Belisarius Captain Captain

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    I think I understand what you're getting at, JES. You want some measure of continuity between the canon universe and fanon contributions. I can understand that. I played around in the Halo universe for several years and that was my main concern, above all else. I think the problem is that we artists get ideas into our thick skulls and don't like letting them go after we have "identified" or identified with our work. Built associations. It's like asking us to change our own names...which is a really personal thing. That's going to cause a lot of potential friction, and I think you've already seen some of that in our immediate reactions.


    ~Belisarius
     
  5. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, you don't like a chosen name, tough luck really. It's sort of insulting to tell us we "can't use it" just for your own edification. Your best bet and probably the least insulting way to go about it is to suggest a better name, but don't count on it being adopted.

    If you really want to, for your own "canon", just imagine that the ship in question has a different registry number and came before or after the other ship in question.
     
  6. StarTreklover

    StarTreklover Ensign Newbie

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    Congrats to the winner! It seems there is alot of debate over the design, so someone posted a poll asking folks opinion of it.

    http://polldaddy.com/poll/5022933/

    I saw this posted on the startrek.com forums and followed the link to the star trek online forums, and then found a link to this site. Funny how the internet can lead you from one place to another :rofl:
     
  7. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This poll is terrible. There are only two options: like or dislike. There should at least be a neutral option for those who don't the design, but don't love it either.
     
  8. erifah

    erifah Captain Captain

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    Indeed.

    If I'm working for someone, getting paid to do it, then they have the right to oversee what I do, make changes, tell me what names to use.

    I suppose it's pretty much the same thing in a contest - if you hope to win the contest, you have to follow the basic rules.

    But for fan designs in general, only the artist gets to decide what to create and how close to "canon" he/she is going to stick. The audience will tend to either like or dislike the results - that's their choice.

    (I don't know HOW many times I've seen something, and said to myself, "self, sure, that ship just doesn't look like a Star Trek ship, but hot damn, that's a cool design!")

    I'm never going to allow myself to become canon fodder. My only criteria for designing an Enterprise, specifically, is that she must "look like an Enterprise" (whatever THAT means!) No one is going to dictate to me that it must take into account fan artist Bob's "Coco-Puffs Class" starship or be named "XYZ" to show "deferential respect" for whatever supposedly needs deferential respect. "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations" and all that, don'tcha know...
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2011
  9. largo

    largo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    there is such an option: abstain. :vulcan:
     
  10. JES

    JES Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, you hit it right on the nose. I want some sort of continuity, even in fanon, so I feel compelled to say something if an artist is going to use a name that has already been used by another design that has my respect. But if an artist chooses to keep a class name, then I will respect that decision, because I feel that is the right of the artist.
     
  11. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Since I chose not to participate in the Cryptic/CBS contest, I didn't read the details too closely.

    However, I can say with absolute certainty that the Simon&Schuster "Titan" contest only ceded ownership of the WINNER's work, not of all the other participants. I'm 100% certain of that, and my conversation with Marco confirmed it from their standpoint as well.

    As far as Cryptic and CBS are concerned... well, there are lots of "you submit it, we own it, we don't have to pay you for it" so-called "contracts" out there, and I'm not surprised that this is a common clause to be included in these "rules" but since this doesn't constitute a contract, I doubt very much that any jury would ever rule in favor of the company who is claiming ownership without compensation.

    That would be like you submitting your portfolio to a potential employer, and that potential employer claiming that they have the right to use the materials in your portfolio for commercial gain. They might CLAIM that, but nobody in their right mind would ever actually agree with it, least of all a jury.
     
  12. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    That's the thing, 9 times out of 10, by the time you get to point out the "conflict", the artist has already cemented the name in question with his design. In fact, in some cases, it may be an attempt to "rescue" a name from an obscure design that no one ever took a shine to.
     
  13. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This makes me miss Marco and how he ran the "Titan" contest. (Has anyone heard from him recently, by the way?)

    What happened here is simple... by permitting a "fan vote" in the first place, this became a threat to the egos of those folks at CBS who were making the final call. "How dare they tell us how we're supposed to vote... WE are in charge!"

    It's not even "politics," it's pure egotism.

    I'm perfectly fine with Adam's design. That's not the complaint. What IS the complaint is the clear "slap in the face" directed towards Fuzzy by the CBS suits, merely because they resented being "told what to do" by the customers.

    This is basically the main reason that George Lucas continues to refuse to release the "original theatrical" version of Star Wars, as well. He's committed his ego to his "updated versions", and the more the public says that they want something else, the more recalcitrant he becomes. It matters not one bit to him that he's actually throwing away money in the process... or that he's angering a sizeable portion of his fan base. It's all about ego. (Oh, and about denying his now-ex-wife any profit... she'd get money from the original version but is denied anything from the "revised versions.)

    Egotism has no place in this area, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation... egotism is the dominant element in the entertainment industry, and always has been. (sigh)
     
  14. Fuzzy Modem

    Fuzzy Modem Commander Red Shirt

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    That's terrible. You know she was his editor? She kept him grounded, as she was the only one who could tell him when he had a bad idea. Now, all his ideas are good :rolleyes:
     
  15. Santaman

    Santaman Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not that I have a clue what to do with 3D software but I would suggest giving this ship its own class and its own name, not Ent F, its got character enough on its own! :cool:
     
  16. Belisarius

    Belisarius Captain Captain

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    I don't think she was his only grounding influence, as Empire Strikes Back and Jedi both avoided most of the problems that plague the prequels. Okay...so maybe the Ewoks were an omen. But still...Lucas' major problem is his writing and casting choices. His creative vision and business acumen are undeniable. It's the damn screenwriting he should stay away from.

    It's just sad that the only way you can really watch the untouched versions of the original trilogy is to get a Laserdisc player and the 1993 Definitive Collection...and pray to God it works.

    But back on topic, I think Cary L. Brown's hit it right on the head. Despite Cryptic's best intentions, CBS clearly never intended to let this decision fall to the fans in any way, shape, or form. And to be fair, there was enough fine print sitting in the rules that we should have expected that.


    ~Belisarius
     
  17. Titan Designer

    Titan Designer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yep, They own the design, but part of it that I liked was that they needed to give design credit whenever posting it (That was part of the Agreement laid out in the rules). So My name is still all over it(I may not own the design, but My name will always be hooked to it), even though cryptic hasn't put my name any where near it when they put it into the game.
     
  18. Aguirre

    Aguirre Cadet Newbie

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    Congratulations to the winner! This was a really fun contest; playing Federation Starship designer—wow, groovy!
    This one was mine: http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/128/4/d/enterprise_f_design_by_rinaldi_pin_up-d3fvhuk.jpg
    Influenced I think by my appreciation of Chris Foss and Ron Cobb... I wanted to make an aggressive looking ship but still retain some grace and also some influences from other alien races in the Federation.
    There were tons of awesome designs entered, but I think my favorite is Vektor’s- WOW! When I saw it for the first time I was floored… just FANTASTIC!
     
  19. Ihlecreations

    Ihlecreations Captain Captain

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    Thought someone would like to see some of the stuff I did before I submitted to cryptic.
    As I look at it I really didnt know where to go with the nacelles so they all look generic.

    [​IMG]
    This was an early version, was a little stubby looking
    [​IMG]
    and for giggles some stuff I did back in '99
    [​IMG]
     
  20. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    Loving that side view - but just to make sure, is the saucer a perfect circle/oval, or does it flare out where those struts are so they remain straight on with the forward view?