Design the Next Enterprise

[Dac]

Ihlecreations, here's the "vaguely polished rough" I made. From umpteen angles.

So Enterprise E was the chicken in a frypan and the Enterprise F is a coolie hat?

With the what now?

 

[Fuzzy Modem]

My Enterprise F is now available for free download: http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/603090

Maya for the moment, Max and Lightwave formats to follow.

Please take the time to rate her, and let me know if you have any problems

 

[JES]

Uh, lets not go there, because there already is a fan design that currently has that name, and I have every intention of sticking with this current ship.

"There already is a fan design that currently has that name." Yeah, you said that right. Fan design. All of these entries were fan designs. Every single new ship class we come up with is a "fan design"...there's no rule that any one fan design becomes an "official" fan design. Think about how ridiculous that sounds. Fuzzy's design is his take on the new Enterprise, and the contest results don't change that. It's still his vision. Just because he didn't win doesn't invalidate it...by that reasoning at least half of the fan designs out there shouldn't be allowed to exist.

I was just trying to encourage him not to think of this whole mess in terms of a loss, because he didn't lose anything in the end. His design is so well-balanced that it can easily find another niche in the tapestry of fan original creations. In fact, it already has.


~Belisarius

But the difference is that most of these designs are brand new. Take FuzzyModem's Frontier class and your Legacy class for example: most, but not all details have been finalized, so finding an alternative class name probably isn't completely out of the question. But Adam Heinbuch's Frontier class and Galen's Legacy class have been around for years.

The point I'm trying to make is that I would like all four of these designs to share the same universe, but that won't be possible if they share the same class name. If an artist chooses to stick with the class name already chosen, I will respect his/her decision to do so, but since a class name can usually only be used once, that means I have to choose which design will exists in my vision.

By pointing out that a name has already been used, I hope to avoid this situation.

Uh, lets not go there, because there already is a fan design that currently has that name, and I have every intention of sticking with this current ship.

You uh, you know there is no official names database? We can pretty much use any name we want at any time we want. It's all fan wank. I certainly don't do exhaustive searches to make sure a name I like hasn't been used before, though if it's a well known name, I tend to avoid it.

Well, I don't do exhaustive searches either, nor do I expect you to do so. It all comes from looking at as many different designs as I could find, and my memory. If a design is good enough, I remember the class name, and to not use it. 'Kitbashes' that are mostly made in Photoshop or with cut and paste do not count as far as I'm concerned; I'm talking about designs that obviously had tons of thought, work, and love put into them, designs that deserve a place in the Trek universe, even if it is only fanon.

For example, your Sojourner class might be incomplete, but it is already a quality 3D model as far as I'm concerned, so I wouldn't use it even if I came up with a design that I felt was perfect for the name. Unless you said that you were going to abandon the project or use a different name, it is on my do not use list.

Besides, I have all you guys to help me come up with another good name anyhow (which I predict is probably going to happen more than once in the future).

Well, I'm pretty sure I can find a Rush-class if I spend a few hours on ShipSchematics.net, so change it now.

I'm pretty sure I would remember if there was a design that already uses that name. If there is one, its probably just some Photoshop kitbash that is not using the name, but simply wasting it. So there is no need to change the name Rush. In fact, Rush is a good, creative choice for a class name, because it isn't as obvious of a name choice than others I could think of.

I can search Ship Schematics myself if you don't believe me.

 

[Belisarius]

I think I understand what you're getting at, JES. You want some measure of continuity between the canon universe and fanon contributions. I can understand that. I played around in the Halo universe for several years and that was my main concern, above all else. I think the problem is that we artists get ideas into our thick skulls and don't like letting them go after we have "identified" or identified with our work. Built associations. It's like asking us to change our own names...which is a really personal thing. That's going to cause a lot of potential friction, and I think you've already seen some of that in our immediate reactions.


~Belisarius

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, you don't like a chosen name, tough luck really. It's sort of insulting to tell us we "can't use it" just for your own edification. Your best bet and probably the least insulting way to go about it is to suggest a better name, but don't count on it being adopted.

If you really want to, for your own "canon", just imagine that the ship in question has a different registry number and came before or after the other ship in question.

 

[StarTreklover]

Congrats to the winner! It seems there is alot of debate over the design, so someone posted a poll asking folks opinion of it.

http://polldaddy.com/poll/5022933/

I saw this posted on the startrek.com forums and followed the link to the star trek online forums, and then found a link to this site. Funny how the internet can lead you from one place to another

 

[bullethead]

Congrats to the winner! It seems there is alot of debate over the design, so someone posted a poll asking folks opinion of it.

http://polldaddy.com/poll/5022933/

I saw this posted on the startrek.com forums and followed the link to the star trek online forums, and then found a link to this site. Funny how the internet can lead you from one place to another

This poll is terrible. There are only two options: like or dislike. There should at least be a neutral option for those who don't the design, but don't love it either.

 

[erifah]

I think I understand what you're getting at, JES. You want some measure of continuity between the canon universe and fanon contributions. I can understand that. I played around in the Halo universe for several years and that was my main concern, above all else. I think the problem is that we artists get ideas into our thick skulls and don't like letting them go after we have "identified" or identified with our work. Built associations. It's like asking us to change our own names...which is a really personal thing. That's going to cause a lot of potential friction, and I think you've already seen some of that in our immediate reactions.


~Belisarius

Indeed.

If I'm working for someone, getting paid to do it, then they have the right to oversee what I do, make changes, tell me what names to use.

I suppose it's pretty much the same thing in a contest - if you hope to win the contest, you have to follow the basic rules.

But for fan designs in general, only the artist gets to decide what to create and how close to "canon" he/she is going to stick. The audience will tend to either like or dislike the results - that's their choice.

(I don't know HOW many times I've seen something, and said to myself, "self, sure, that ship just doesn't look like a Star Trek ship, but hot damn, that's a cool design!")

I'm never going to allow myself to become canon fodder. My only criteria for designing an Enterprise, specifically, is that she must "look like an Enterprise" (whatever THAT means!) No one is going to dictate to me that it must take into account fan artist Bob's "Coco-Puffs Class" starship or be named "XYZ" to show "deferential respect" for whatever supposedly needs deferential respect. "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations" and all that, don'tcha know...

 

[largo]

This poll is terrible. There are only two options: like or dislike. There should at least be a neutral option for those who don't the design, but don't love it either.

there is such an option: abstain.

 

[JES]

I think I understand what you're getting at, JES. You want some measure of continuity between the canon universe and fanon contributions. I can understand that. I played around in the Halo universe for several years and that was my main concern, above all else. I think the problem is that we artists get ideas into our thick skulls and don't like letting them go after we have "identified" or identified with our work. Built associations. It's like asking us to change our own names...which is a really personal thing. That's going to cause a lot of potential friction, and I think you've already seen some of that in our immediate reactions.


~Belisarius

Yeah, you hit it right on the nose. I want some sort of continuity, even in fanon, so I feel compelled to say something if an artist is going to use a name that has already been used by another design that has my respect. But if an artist chooses to keep a class name, then I will respect that decision, because I feel that is the right of the artist.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Since I chose not to participate in the Cryptic/CBS contest, I didn't read the details too closely.

However, I can say with absolute certainty that the Simon&Schuster "Titan" contest only ceded ownership of the WINNER's work, not of all the other participants. I'm 100% certain of that, and my conversation with Marco confirmed it from their standpoint as well.

As far as Cryptic and CBS are concerned... well, there are lots of "you submit it, we own it, we don't have to pay you for it" so-called "contracts" out there, and I'm not surprised that this is a common clause to be included in these "rules" but since this doesn't constitute a contract, I doubt very much that any jury would ever rule in favor of the company who is claiming ownership without compensation.

That would be like you submitting your portfolio to a potential employer, and that potential employer claiming that they have the right to use the materials in your portfolio for commercial gain. They might CLAIM that, but nobody in their right mind would ever actually agree with it, least of all a jury.

As I read the contest rules... and if anyone disagrees, please point it out to me where I'm wrong... ONLY the rights to Adam's sketch is now owned by Cryptic and CBS. NOBODY ELSE has signed over any rights, since nobody else won. Am I wrong about that?

Actually, I believe you are. I am not a lawyer but Section 7 of the contest rules states: "All entries become the sole and exclusive property of Sponsor and will not be acknowledged or returned." Note the use of the words "all entries," not "all winners."

This stipulation is common to pretty much every design contest I've seen, including the Titan contest as I recall. Were it not so, Cryptic would be open to lawsuits from anyone who thought they recognized some element of their own work in a future ship design. With literally thousands of entries having been submitted, that would leave them in an obviously untenable position.

That being said, I don't imagine Cryptic or CBS is going to waste much time or effort trying to police the unauthorized use of the thousands of designs that were submitted for the contest. I rather doubt I'll be getting into any ownership disputes with them over my Magellanic class just by further developing the design, modeling it in 3D, creating illustrations of it for my portfolio, or anything else I'm likely to ever do with it on my own.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, you hit it right on the nose. I want some sort of continuity, even in fanon, so I feel compelled to say something if an artist is going to use a name that has already been used by another design that has my respect. But if an artist chooses to keep a class name, then I will respect that decision, because I feel that is the right of the artist.

That's the thing, 9 times out of 10, by the time you get to point out the "conflict", the artist has already cemented the name in question with his design. In fact, in some cases, it may be an attempt to "rescue" a name from an obscure design that no one ever took a shine to.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Congrats to the winner!

I could have entered the contest, but didn't, so I'm not going to bash any of the entries. What works for some falls flat with others (though DAC's rendering I think is helping to sell the winning design, for me anyway).

I do have to wonder though, as a matter of business sense, how you don't even acknowledge the most popular design with at least an honorable mention. Fuzzy's feelings aside, that's just a slap in the face to your customer base. Someone ought to let Cryptic and CBS know that in future, the point of these contests is to generate more interest and bring in more customers, not piss off and lose from what you already have.

This makes me miss Marco and how he ran the "Titan" contest. (Has anyone heard from him recently, by the way?)

What happened here is simple... by permitting a "fan vote" in the first place, this became a threat to the egos of those folks at CBS who were making the final call. "How dare they tell us how we're supposed to vote... WE are in charge!"

It's not even "politics," it's pure egotism.

I'm perfectly fine with Adam's design. That's not the complaint. What IS the complaint is the clear "slap in the face" directed towards Fuzzy by the CBS suits, merely because they resented being "told what to do" by the customers.

This is basically the main reason that George Lucas continues to refuse to release the "original theatrical" version of Star Wars, as well. He's committed his ego to his "updated versions", and the more the public says that they want something else, the more recalcitrant he becomes. It matters not one bit to him that he's actually throwing away money in the process... or that he's angering a sizeable portion of his fan base. It's all about ego. (Oh, and about denying his now-ex-wife any profit... she'd get money from the original version but is denied anything from the "revised versions.)

Egotism has no place in this area, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation... egotism is the dominant element in the entertainment industry, and always has been. (sigh)

 

[Fuzzy Modem]

It's all about ego. (Oh, and about denying his now-ex-wife any profit... she'd get money from the original version but is denied anything from the "revised versions.)

That's terrible. You know she was his editor? She kept him grounded, as she was the only one who could tell him when he had a bad idea. Now, all his ideas are good

 

[Santaman]

My Enterprise F is now available for free download: http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/603090

Maya for the moment, Max and Lightwave formats to follow.

Please take the time to rate her, and let me know if you have any problems

Not that I have a clue what to do with 3D software but I would suggest giving this ship its own class and its own name, not Ent F, its got character enough on its own!

 

[Belisarius]

This is basically the main reason that George Lucas continues to refuse to release the "original theatrical" version of Star Wars, as well. He's committed his ego to his "updated versions", and the more the public says that they want something else, the more recalcitrant he becomes. It matters not one bit to him that he's actually throwing away money in the process... or that he's angering a sizeable portion of his fan base. It's all about ego. (Oh, and about denying his now-ex-wife any profit... she'd get money from the original version but is denied anything from the "revised versions.)

That's terrible. You know she was his editor? She kept him grounded, as she was the only one who could tell him when he had a bad idea. Now, all his ideas are good

I don't think she was his only grounding influence, as Empire Strikes Back and Jedi both avoided most of the problems that plague the prequels. Okay...so maybe the Ewoks were an omen. But still...Lucas' major problem is his writing and casting choices. His creative vision and business acumen are undeniable. It's the damn screenwriting he should stay away from.

It's just sad that the only way you can really watch the untouched versions of the original trilogy is to get a Laserdisc player and the 1993 Definitive Collection...and pray to God it works.

But back on topic, I think Cary L. Brown's hit it right on the head. Despite Cryptic's best intentions, CBS clearly never intended to let this decision fall to the fans in any way, shape, or form. And to be fair, there was enough fine print sitting in the rules that we should have expected that.


~Belisarius

 

[Titan Designer]

Since I chose not to participate in the Cryptic/CBS contest, I didn't read the details too closely.

However, I can say with absolute certainty that the Simon&Schuster "Titan" contest only ceded ownership of the WINNER's work, not of all the other participants. I'm 100% certain of that, and my conversation with Marco confirmed it from their standpoint as well.

Yep, They own the design, but part of it that I liked was that they needed to give design credit whenever posting it (That was part of the Agreement laid out in the rules). So My name is still all over it(I may not own the design, but My name will always be hooked to it), even though cryptic hasn't put my name any where near it when they put it into the game.

 

[Aguirre]

Congratulations to the winner! This was a really fun contest; playing Federation Starship designer—wow, groovy!
This one was mine: http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/128/4/d/enterprise_f_design_by_rinaldi_pin_up-d3fvhuk.jpg
Influenced I think by my appreciation of Chris Foss and Ron Cobb... I wanted to make an aggressive looking ship but still retain some grace and also some influences from other alien races in the Federation.
There were tons of awesome designs entered, but I think my favorite is Vektor’s- WOW! When I saw it for the first time I was floored… just FANTASTIC!

 

[Ihlecreations]

Thought someone would like to see some of the stuff I did before I submitted to cryptic.
As I look at it I really didnt know where to go with the nacelles so they all look generic.

This was an early version, was a little stubby looking

and for giggles some stuff I did back in '99

 

[Dac]

Loving that side view - but just to make sure, is the saucer a perfect circle/oval, or does it flare out where those struts are so they remain straight on with the forward view?