Actually seeing the top view sketch helps me imagine this better. I like it, plus the older designs are great. Thanks for sharing these.
To be honest, when I saw the winning design, I thought to myself, "self, OK, it has two struts for the saucer. Different, sure, but what's the point? Different just to be different? *yawn* Kinda gimmicky." But with that top sketch, I'm thinking, "hmmmm, there's a good reason for those two saucer struts - don't quite know what it is, what the artist is intending, but it looks functional somehow." I certainly know what I would do with that prime real estate. Andy Probert was fooling around with something similar: shuttle bay or some sort of launch/recovery area.
The chicken in a frypan is a reference to the way the pylons swept forward, a change made in the final design. It's mentioned in the art of trek book covering First Contact. The primary saucer and dual necks immediately reminded me of a coolie hat, an Asian conical hat that uses two straps:
Some comments follow regarding Ihlecreations' latest sketch: I agree with erifah that this rendition gives the impression that the new connection points were designed for a functional purpose. Now, when my daughter saw this design for the first time, her immediate response was, "I'd like to see the staircase for getting into that hangar bay." Granted, a turbolift would have a pretty rough time getting from the bridge to the engineering deck (assuming it's in the lower hull). However, maybe that's not how these 25th century commuters get around. Imagine an intra-ship beaming system that transports folks between two points in the ship at all times. That way, both hulls could be permanently airtight. If that's the case, and neither flange is really designed to hold people anyway, then you can see where this concept could be more structurally sound than a thin little pencil-neck in the center. Not only could this ship separate more easily, but both separate components would look more like whole vessels rather than one like a Frisbee and the other like a squashed leopard. Assuming the points of separation are at the seam in the middle of the lower hull, I'd say the upper hull by itself would be a formidable impulse-powered vessel. And the lower hull, without a neck stem sticking out of the center of it, wouldn't be compromised in the least. Actually, it might look damn cool! The parts that don't sing to me yet are the warp nacelles. Right now, they're just there, begging to be rethought into a somewhat new concept. At the moment they seem to be foreign objects, placeholders for future engines should anyone care to design some. Of course, I need to be careful here: Although I could very well argue that it's time to rework the whole nacelle concept into something novel and breathtaking, my guess is that if Ihlecreations had done that from the beginning, he wouldn't have won this contest. Suffice it to say, this version of "F" needs a pair of warp engines that aren't the usual 1) Roman candles; 2) caskets; 3) Tic-Tacs; 4) '58 Chevy Bel-Air tail lights; 5) Jetsons props; 6) Fender guitar necks; 7) chop sticks; 8) USB thumb drives; 9) Sharpies; 10) locusts. DF "Or, Like in the Last Movie, a Locust Shell Duct-Taped to a Sharpie" Scott
*Augirre: I saw that your design was one of the winning designs. Congratulations on your part. I have to admit that as an Enterprise, I don't like her all that much, because of the organic secondary hull and the transition between the two hull sections; but I like her as her own thing, and she does have her interesting design elements. You did her in, what, Illustrator, Photoshop? As an artist, you do have skill, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here who looks forward to any work that you have already done or are going to do in the future. Ihlecreations: Loving it. I love concept art; I can't get enough of the stuff. I like the saucer section. It looks sleek, and reminds me of the Sovereign, specifically the concept sketches. I can tell in the concept sketches that you were struggling with the nacelle pylons and nacelles. Heh, I have the exact same problem. Thanks for posting.
I think I get what you're saying. What your describing reminds me exactly of the transport system in Atlantis. A handy system to have, but what bothers me is what might happen if the crew needs them and there isn't enough of them to get to the intended hull (like when the Enterprise-D separated in Generations. Though having site-to-site transports, if there are enough, could make such an evacuation go faster, assuming the extra use of power doesn't make the core lose containment even faster. Then again, it isn't as though I know enough about core breaches...), they lose some of the individual transport systems, which would end up stranding, and could inevitably end up killing some of the crew, or even worse, the site-to-site transports go off line, which would strand any of the crew who can't get to life pods or shuttles in time. Even then, that might not be enough if they are under fire. I'm also worried about what if the power, or even the transports go off-line, and the engineer or engineers who are the only ones who can fix the problem are in the saucer section? I suppose Jefferies tubes could be put into the necks, but I sure wouldn't want to be the one climbing down or up. I can see where the design has an advantage over standard neck designs, but I still feel that over all, hull separation designs like that used in the Prometheus, Sovereign, and Luna are better for accessibility to both sections, and that is why I still feel that the neck between the saucer and engineering section equation should be done away with. No offense intended to Ihlecreations and his design. That is just my analytical opinion.
I really don't see why a turbolift couldn't traverse those neck sections. The shaft would not be straight, obviously, but who says they have to be?
Awesomesauce. I can't wait to see the new F in-game, especially at the scale she is. That thing's gonna look awesome! -- Also, tangentially, I was waiting till the dust settled to toss up a link to the hi-res of my Enterprise-F painting, just in case it interfered with some subparagraph sub-sub-sub clause of a contract... somewhere. Anyways... lost my train of thought. Something, something, painting. Oh, yes. Here it is:http://chrismaddenart.com/ent-f_final.jpg Heh, looking at the hi-res, there's not a ton of detail that's not in the teensie one on the contest website. And you can totally see where I cut corners. I DID paint the thing in like an hour and a half, so there's that. I also plan (one day, ::smiles dreamily: to do a model and 3D print of this lady. Hopefully with lights! Wouldn't that be a thing.
This was my personal favorite in the contest. I love the quick paint style this is a great great design.
Mojomoe, this print was, and is, my absolute knockout favorite contestant. In a way, you went back to the roots of the design and called out some of the classic lines from the original and the "A" refit (like the line from the neck to the top of the deflector dish, in your case carved out from outside the swooped neck) and decked her out in clothes befitting a different age and era. Yea, sure, you did cut a few corners in this painting (the descending deck from the bottom of the saucer forward doesn't carry to the edge of the disc) but these are things that can be cleared up in successive drafts. The basic premise is everything you want: The Enterprise, not a replacement, not a substitute, but scaled up for the 25th century. It really works, and I would have voted it as the victor overall. DF "If It Ain't Broke, Don't Rethink It" Scott
Ive always loved mojomoe's design, but on the flipside of that it is far from an Enterprise-F. If the JJ-Verse needed a refit design for the connie, that IS it. It's a gorgeous, slick design that evokes the TMP refit, but that's the problem - It evokes the TMP refit, not a 25th Century ship that shares the design cues of its immediate predecessors or contemporaries from STO. Quite frankly that's why i'm over the moon Ihlecreations did win, because he along with Vektor and very few others were the folks who got the time period and also managed to craft a decent design out of it. Mojomoe's is a beautiful ship, it's an Enterprise, but its not an Enterprise-F.
Okay, since a couple of people have mentioned this to me, I guess I'll show what I'd done. Mind you, this is waaaay too "advanced" to be the 1701-F anyway. It's probably post-J, really... so maybe I should call it the "Enterprise L." The ship is designed as the first true intergalactic explorer. As such, it is just HUGE, intended to survive and keep the crew sane even if they never make it home. It also has new/modified propulsion systems. Obviously, the design is lacking in detail... this was just a general "how things go together" and "scale" model. If you click on the links to the images, you'll see my 1701 model alongside it... though you'll need to look closely! This ship, from tip of the "dual saucer" to the aft end of the slipstream nacelle spires is 4.2 miles long. I started off playing with the idea of "the game" but abandoned that and just tried things I've always wanted to do in starship design. I'm not 100% happy with it, but I think it works as a 26 or 27th century intragalactic explorer. Each of the two "secondary hulls" contains sensors, massive cargo bays, power generation, and some of the propulsion system (what would be considered "warp drive" by TNG standards, without the slipstream nacelles which make it far, far faster than "warp drive" would ever allow). They also contain massive "parkland/agricultural" facilities in their cores. The saucer is actually two "bowls stacked together, with a core in the middle and interconnects at several locations along the sides. The saucer decks are actually circumferential rings, so that each side is just rowed with areas which can become windows. The inner side is more like looking out across an incredible cityscape than anything else you might think of. All the docking bays are on the inside of this cavity, by the way. Since the ship is in various configurations of decks, the "lifts" are actually spherical shapes, and they reorient as they enter new areas of the ship. There are also intership transporters, though these are mainly used for emergency purposes.
Cary, This is a very interesting concept. It has a Vulcan and Kelvin feel to it in it's design. I like where you are going with this. You are right this feels like an Enterprise L than an F. Personally I would love to see you complete this design. Great concept and work as usual.
Cary, while I love the saucer concept you have and even like the dual secondary hull and nacelle designs, I simply can't enjoy those nacelle pylons. For the same reason I don't like the curved pylons on Abrams' Enterprise, the idea of curving them just doesn't make sense. Because of that curvature, they're longer than they need to be and use more materials and weaken the structure. Unless the pylons are intended to be part of the drive system -- a call-back to the original Vulcan/SS Enterprise approach. But then it looks like the engineering hulls and nacelles interrupt that function. If the drive system is included in the pylons, perhaps it should look more like a single ring pylon wrapping around the exterior of the engineering hulls and slipstream nacelles. Just a thought. Hopefully, you'll open up a thread for this design as you continue to work on it and share progress. I'm really intrigued by the primary hull and would love to see views of that cityscape you describe.
My favorite part about the winning design is actually the dual struts connecting the saucer to the stardrive, rather than a single neck. I think that gives it a very slick and advanced look.
I do see your point, Dac, but I'm not certain I agree with it. If you were to ask a group of Ford Motor Company designers in the late 1970s to do concept art for how they picture the Mustang in 2010, what you'd see might look something like Syd Mead/Futurama. (In fact, you might actually see some Syd Mead.) If you were to then show them the 2010 Mustang, they'd probably argue with you that it's just not possible for Ford to bring back the old design lines and the '60s geometry. "The Mustang's evolved past that now; it's angular, crisp, 'clean!'" For heaven's sake, if your product has the same name as it did a half-century or five half-centuries ago, then it should evoke the same memories. (Porsche 911.) On the other hand, a fair question to ask is whether the players of the STO game would expect a ship that is neo-retro like this one, or would prefer something that bends a rule someplace without falling over the cliff. I believe the judges did ask this question, and I think Ihlecreations' work responded to it more brilliantly by throwing in a twist that doesn't destroy the iconic nature of the ship. I think Cary has a Matt Jefferies-like concept for a whole new chapter of the Star Trek story: an intergalactic traveler that evokes the memory, mission, and heritage of the original Enterprise. Which is nice. But it doesn't fit the STO game premise, for obvious reasons. What's more, if this is essentially a mobile space station as Cary envisions, I'd think its design would need to evolve somewhat to suggest its space station functionality. My guess, especially from the scale in Cary's renderings, is that this thing could carry starships within it, as opposed to just shuttlecraft. Well, it probably should. Interstellar craft should perhaps be components of this intergalactic vessel, and I'm not seeing evidence of this (yet). Cary also suggested things that would keep the crew sane on long voyages. I'd assume that would include a self-sustaining ecosystem, a way to go outside without entering a holodeck (which is really a closet, if you think about it). Yet the basic concept here seems feasible: a new propulsion system with a ring-like enclosure for stability, dual fuselages (purposes yet to be revealed), and a massive saucer enclosure. It's a good starting point and I'm anxious to see where it goes. DF "'Level Please?' 'Deck 3,104.' 'Thank You.' 'Up Your Shaft.'" Scott
DFScott, i'd say that mojomoe's is the Syd Mead/Futurama Enterprise in this analogy simply because it does look like a piece of art that took existing elements from the TMP Enterprise and extrapolated them to an extreme, rather than an original design that looks like a functional starship from the 25th Century universe that STO takes place in. Then again, I guess the same could be argued for the JJprise, simply because that looks vastly different from all the other ships we saw in that flick.