Denobulan, Vulcan and human sexuality; bonding
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Excuse the multiple posts.
Believe this is on topic.
The Bond.
The Bond first manifested itself in the series when we see Trip on the columbia which is in dry dock either on Earth or on Jupiter station. His mind is not focused on aything in particular so he is daydraming. Suddenly he is in T-Pol's white room. (White room is in T-Pol's mind and is created when she is meditating.) T-Pol asks him what he is doing in her Whirte room and to go away as she is meditating. Trip answers that she should leave as it is his daydream. We then get the TV/Movie cliche of the untimely intrruption. Someone speaks to Trip getting his attention and breaking the Link between Trip and T-Pol's mind.
Now that link took place over a distance of some five (5) light years (light year: distance light travels in a year at a speed of 186,000 miles Persec/persec.) That is several trillion miles. So the bond must be exrtemely powerful.
Bond is again referenced by Hoshi after she and T-Pol share a mind meld. Hoshi asks t-Pol if it is possible for a person to pick up things from the other person in a mind meld. T-Pol says yes and asks Hoshi about it. Hoshi says that she was in white room and that tucker was there too "Kinda romantic" Hoshi says.
Bond again arises in Bound after Trip wonders why he is immune to the Orion women and T-Pol says it is probably because of her and goes on to tell trip that it has lond been believed that when a vulcan mates a Physic bond is created. Trip at firs denies that they mated and then says Okay we are bonded. T-Pol tells him that the bond enables the persons in the bond to sense one anothers thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc.
Again in bound when trip says that they are a Hell of a team especially now that they are in each others heads (the Bond)
The last time the bond is mentined in the series is in a tunnel in Paxton's mine. t-Pol says to Trip that he still doesn't believe her. I forget what trip says exactly but he does say that he is tired (sick) of the Bond.
So it is established in the Series (not a conjecture) that a bond does exist between Trip and T-Pol
Believe this is on topic.
The Bond.
The Bond first manifested itself in the series when we see Trip on the columbia which is in dry dock either on Earth or on Jupiter station. His mind is not focused on aything in particular so he is daydraming. Suddenly he is in T-Pol's white room. (White room is in T-Pol's mind and is created when she is meditating.) T-Pol asks him what he is doing in her Whirte room and to go away as she is meditating. Trip answers that she should leave as it is his daydream. We then get the TV/Movie cliche of the untimely intrruption. Someone speaks to Trip getting his attention and breaking the Link between Trip and T-Pol's mind.
Now that link took place over a distance of some five (5) light years (light year: distance light travels in a year at a speed of 186,000 miles Persec/persec.) That is several trillion miles. So the bond must be exrtemely powerful.
Bond is again referenced by Hoshi after she and T-Pol share a mind meld. Hoshi asks t-Pol if it is possible for a person to pick up things from the other person in a mind meld. T-Pol says yes and asks Hoshi about it. Hoshi says that she was in white room and that tucker was there too "Kinda romantic" Hoshi says.
Bond again arises in Bound after Trip wonders why he is immune to the Orion women and T-Pol says it is probably because of her and goes on to tell trip that it has lond been believed that when a vulcan mates a Physic bond is created. Trip at firs denies that they mated and then says Okay we are bonded. T-Pol tells him that the bond enables the persons in the bond to sense one anothers thoughts, feelings, emotions, etc.
Again in bound when trip says that they are a Hell of a team especially now that they are in each others heads (the Bond)
The last time the bond is mentined in the series is in a tunnel in Paxton's mine. t-Pol says to Trip that he still doesn't believe her. I forget what trip says exactly but he does say that he is tired (sick) of the Bond.
So it is established in the Series (not a conjecture) that a bond does exist between Trip and T-Pol
I don't believe the existence of the bond was ever in question; its presence is first implied in "Affliction" with the White Room vision, and then it is established in "Bound" when Trip exhibits T'Pol's Vulcan immunity to the Orion pheromones.
The speculation comes regarding how and when it first came into being, since T'Pol herself is rather vague about it. When I saw "Bound," I got the impression that T'Pol had been somewhat skeptical of the concept until she began experiencing it herself. That was a fun touch, I thought.
The speculation comes regarding how and when it first came into being, since T'Pol herself is rather vague about it. When I saw "Bound," I got the impression that T'Pol had been somewhat skeptical of the concept until she began experiencing it herself. That was a fun touch, I thought.
Hopefullromantic. that is the question. How and when did the bond get created?
I believe it started the night in Harbinger when T-Pol seduced Trip.
that leaves question how long did the seduction last? a few minutes, a couple hours. How long would intercourse have to be for Bond to be created.
Then how much does the NP come into play. Was it important to the creation of the Bond.
Often wondered why there was no mention of a Bond between the Old T-Pol (in E2) and her Trip.
Also wonder why there was no evidence among vulcans of Bonds being created between them after they mated. If there was evidence of a Bond being created between Vulcans after mating T-Pol should have been wondering is if a Bond could be created between a Vulcan and a Human.
I believe it started the night in Harbinger when T-Pol seduced Trip.
that leaves question how long did the seduction last? a few minutes, a couple hours. How long would intercourse have to be for Bond to be created.
Then how much does the NP come into play. Was it important to the creation of the Bond.
Often wondered why there was no mention of a Bond between the Old T-Pol (in E2) and her Trip.
Also wonder why there was no evidence among vulcans of Bonds being created between them after they mated. If there was evidence of a Bond being created between Vulcans after mating T-Pol should have been wondering is if a Bond could be created between a Vulcan and a Human.
Since we have no details regarding the how and why of the bond's creation beyond T'Pol's "Bound" explanation ("There's a long-held belief that when a Vulcan mates, there's a shared psychic bond"), the answer is up for grabs.
There are clues, though. One could infer that the bond formed over time, since its effects began to manifest in "Affliction." One might also take T'Pol's use of the word "mates" and infer that "Harbinger" was the point of the bond's beginning. However, Trip doesn't think she means sex ("We didn't mate"), and she has up to this point referred to that night as "sexual relations," not as mating, so their definition of the term is open to interpretation.
In the end, the answer for such unanswered questions is...whatever works for you.
As for why there was no mention of the bond between the alternate Trip and T'Pol in "E2"...the practical answer is, there's only so much you can cram into a 42-minute episode, and if it's not essential to move the story forward, then ideally, it's not in the script. Two scenes that were filmed were cut for time as it was. Also, this notion of the bond wasn't brought up by Manny Coto until Season 4 anyway, so perhaps it didn't occur to anyone while they were cranking out those Xindi-war-heavy Season 3 episodes.
Evidence of bonds between Vulcan couples? I'm not recalling any Vulcan couples featured on Enterprise off the top of my head...perhaps one of you who has a better handle on the specifics of all the eps would know this... That would be a big reason why we didn't see it.
We did have T'Les's mention of her connection with her husband, already discussed upthread. And there is plenty of mention of bonds in other Trek shows, and in Trek novels. T'Pol might not have been tracking on it because, as already mentioned, she might not have believed in it. Even if she did, there might not be any reason for her to expect such a thing to be possible between a Vulcan and a human.
All my own subjective .02
There are clues, though. One could infer that the bond formed over time, since its effects began to manifest in "Affliction." One might also take T'Pol's use of the word "mates" and infer that "Harbinger" was the point of the bond's beginning. However, Trip doesn't think she means sex ("We didn't mate"), and she has up to this point referred to that night as "sexual relations," not as mating, so their definition of the term is open to interpretation.
In the end, the answer for such unanswered questions is...whatever works for you.
As for why there was no mention of the bond between the alternate Trip and T'Pol in "E2"...the practical answer is, there's only so much you can cram into a 42-minute episode, and if it's not essential to move the story forward, then ideally, it's not in the script. Two scenes that were filmed were cut for time as it was. Also, this notion of the bond wasn't brought up by Manny Coto until Season 4 anyway, so perhaps it didn't occur to anyone while they were cranking out those Xindi-war-heavy Season 3 episodes.
Evidence of bonds between Vulcan couples? I'm not recalling any Vulcan couples featured on Enterprise off the top of my head...perhaps one of you who has a better handle on the specifics of all the eps would know this... That would be a big reason why we didn't see it.
We did have T'Les's mention of her connection with her husband, already discussed upthread. And there is plenty of mention of bonds in other Trek shows, and in Trek novels. T'Pol might not have been tracking on it because, as already mentioned, she might not have believed in it. Even if she did, there might not be any reason for her to expect such a thing to be possible between a Vulcan and a human.
All my own subjective .02
That we have been extensively debating how the bond was created when, technically, it was invented after the fact so that Trip would resist the Orions in a later episode - and for obvious romantic purposes. One might say it negates the whole debate...
But that wouldn't be fun.
Thanks, Cicero.
I now vaguely remember one of these romances. I believed in it.
I have to dust off my tapes. I saw TOS only once and distractedly sometimes.
I wouldn't infer that there was no evidence for Vulcans bonding after they mated. T'Pol's statement that "There's a long-held belief that when a Vulcan mates, there's a shared psychic bond", hints at it - my guess is that Vulcan married couples & perhaps other Vulcans who inadvertantly mate and bond before marriage wouldn't talk about it much (might lead to the dreaded "E" word
) but there is enough hints in what they do say (T'Les's talk about a connection with her husband) for unbonded Vulcans to at least be aware or speculate on such an occurance happening. Hence T'Pol has at least a vague idea of what's occuring and can explain it to Trip as best she can.
Just wondering.
I have speculated on what TPTB and the writers had planned for the Bond in later seasons. Must have been somethihng since they created it in the series.
Of course, liike some other thngs they could have just let it die and never mentioned it again.
Pity, I would have loved to see it developed and explained more.
I have read several Fanfics where the Bond played an important part in the Fic. Some good ideas.
I have speculated on what TPTB and the writers had planned for the Bond in later seasons. Must have been somethihng since they created it in the series.
Of course, liike some other thngs they could have just let it die and never mentioned it again.
Pity, I would have loved to see it developed and explained more.
I have read several Fanfics where the Bond played an important part in the Fic. Some good ideas.
I see now that I didn't read your post closely enough and made a fool of myself because I did the very thing you said not to do. But not knowing where "there" was - and seldom clicking on any links, I was in good faith. Hell, I wouldn't even have thought of the comparison if you hadn't alluded to it. My ideas in the closed threah header came to me on the spot.
Ah, the burden of the new members on the veterans...
I can already see it with newer members than me so I have a vague idea of how you guys may feel.
At least you got me using my imagination - something that almost stopped happening suddenly, since I actively joined the board instead of daydreaming in the evening.
To conclude, I'll confess that although I'm thankful that people like you can quote and list things like every part of the ship where T & T had discussions about their relationship, because I am completely found wanting in that department, I lament the bitterness of those who are too close to the subject.
I will not question your decisions, though, for I am clueless here and I welcome guidance.
Relax, ria, you're among friends. 
Hang out here, read through the threads, soak up the atmosphere, laugh at the captions, and you'll get a feel for the place soon enough.
We all have passion for Enterprise, of one sort or another, and fierce loyalties toward certain characters, episodes, relationships, etc. Many of us express ourselves with great passion, whether positively or negatively--sometimes a little too passionately. That's why shipper stuff is limited to shipper-specific threads now.
Okay, let's get this puppy back on topic, shall we?
Hang out here, read through the threads, soak up the atmosphere, laugh at the captions, and you'll get a feel for the place soon enough.We all have passion for Enterprise, of one sort or another, and fierce loyalties toward certain characters, episodes, relationships, etc. Many of us express ourselves with great passion, whether positively or negatively--sometimes a little too passionately. That's why shipper stuff is limited to shipper-specific threads now.
Okay, let's get this puppy back on topic, shall we?
That is not the case, at least it wasn't discussed by anyone from Braga's writing team in any interview I've ever seen ... until season 4.
Just for the record, just because it wasn't mentioned specifically in any interviews does not mean necessarily that the bond would not have been further explored and possibly explained more precisely if the series had continued. (thanks Trippy, it had never occurred to me before reading your post that T/T's bond was unique simply because there was a human involved)
I would certainly have been interested in knowing how the human/Vulcan bond differed from a Vulcan/Vulcan bond and further explanation of the Vulcan marriage "bond".
I'm pretty sure Coto, Sussman and the Reeves- Stevens mentioned something about what they had planned at a convention I attended soon after the cancellation. I think it was Passadena. They talked about doing another mirror episode, Section 31, building up the foundation of the Federation and further exploration of Trip and T'Pol's bond.
It sounds like it would have been a kick ass season.
It sounds like it would have been a kick ass season.
My comment was: it had not been mentioned. Coto talked about a lot of things, and I never heard this as an item, nor had anyone discussed ahead of season 3 that it was going to happen.
So -- it's supposition.
This.
I also love the idea that Bound happened a year after Harbinger, and how that's related to the bond.
Good use of the noggins!
Human Sexuality.
In Home Archer is mountain climbing and he meets Capt Rodreiquis (sp) on the mountain.
It is revealed that Archer and Erika had a intimate affair going before the Enterprise was lauched. I get the idea that it was of some duration.
Once ARcher became a Captain he outrranked Erika and he broke off the intimate affair with her because to his lights it was not right for a superior officer to have an affair with a subordinate officer. Then Enterprise was lauched and he left Earth.
Now, on the mountain he finds that they are both of the same rank and he wants to Hop into the sack with Erika. Because now they are no longer of unequal rank.
Erika goes along with this apparently.
So Archer is a jerk and Erika has no pride.
This would give Human Sexualirty a bad name.
Maybe Archer can turn it off and on like a spigot But that make him a cold guy if he can stiff arm the woman he is having an intimate affair with just because he now outranks her. What in Hell happend to a Man and a Woman? Rather than to it all depends on Rank.
Doesnn't look good for the Humans.
In Home Archer is mountain climbing and he meets Capt Rodreiquis (sp) on the mountain.
It is revealed that Archer and Erika had a intimate affair going before the Enterprise was lauched. I get the idea that it was of some duration.
Once ARcher became a Captain he outrranked Erika and he broke off the intimate affair with her because to his lights it was not right for a superior officer to have an affair with a subordinate officer. Then Enterprise was lauched and he left Earth.
Now, on the mountain he finds that they are both of the same rank and he wants to Hop into the sack with Erika. Because now they are no longer of unequal rank.
Erika goes along with this apparently.
So Archer is a jerk and Erika has no pride.
This would give Human Sexualirty a bad name.
Maybe Archer can turn it off and on like a spigot But that make him a cold guy if he can stiff arm the woman he is having an intimate affair with just because he now outranks her. What in Hell happend to a Man and a Woman? Rather than to it all depends on Rank.
Doesnn't look good for the Humans.
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