Delta Vega
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Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
I haven't seen TMP recently enough to answer that question. I seem to recall, though, some time before the current film's release, some controversy about images of the sky above Vulcan that included a moon, the controversy being that Vulcan has no moon in canon. Then those scenes were retouched to remove the moon in deference to canon.
This is just vague forum-troll recollections on my part, but anyway the whole question of where Delta Vega is located would explain why they had originally wanted a moon to be seen in Vulcan's sky when Spock beams down to the surface to save his family.
There are other reasons why the moon idea doesn't work very well, though. For one thing it would probably be too close to the singularity to survive.
I haven't seen TMP recently enough to answer that question. I seem to recall, though, some time before the current film's release, some controversy about images of the sky above Vulcan that included a moon, the controversy being that Vulcan has no moon in canon. Then those scenes were retouched to remove the moon in deference to canon.
This is just vague forum-troll recollections on my part, but anyway the whole question of where Delta Vega is located would explain why they had originally wanted a moon to be seen in Vulcan's sky when Spock beams down to the surface to save his family.
There are other reasons why the moon idea doesn't work very well, though. For one thing it would probably be too close to the singularity to survive.
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
Class M means "Earth-Vulcan conditions". I've always questioned that, since Vulcan isn't exactly like Earth, but that's the definition that's always been held to. Also, while the gravity on Vulcan is greater than Earth's, it can't be much greater since McCoy and Kirk were able to move about pretty normally. Kirk was even able to fight Spock and have some success.
This suggests the mass of the planet (and its gravity) would have to be VERY close to Earth's. Maybe 110% of Earth's, and no more?
Picture yourself on a planet with 2g's. (200% Earth's gravity.) Even only 1.5gs (150%). There's no way you'd move around like you do here.
Vulcan can't be THAT much bigger/more massive than Earth. Slightly, yes, but not greatly.
You're making my point for me.
For starters, Delta Vega seemed to be Earthlike. No difficulty moving, no space suits, not even masks of any kind.
If you're saying it was Vulcan's sister planet (it's apparent "moon" in TMP) that's class G, then we're not talking about that.
We're talking about Delta Vega and Vulcan, both of which appear to be class M.
Remind me...
Was DV called "class G" in WNMHGB?
Odd that Vulcan would be class M, but Detla Vega wouldn't.
Anyway, the point had to do with mass and gravity, and from what we've seen, both Vulcan and DV are close to Earth conditions in that regard. So again, two Earth type planets as close to each other as we saw in Spock's meld image...
Uh uh.
Class M means "Earth-Vulcan conditions". I've always questioned that, since Vulcan isn't exactly like Earth, but that's the definition that's always been held to. Also, while the gravity on Vulcan is greater than Earth's, it can't be much greater since McCoy and Kirk were able to move about pretty normally. Kirk was even able to fight Spock and have some success.
This suggests the mass of the planet (and its gravity) would have to be VERY close to Earth's. Maybe 110% of Earth's, and no more?
Picture yourself on a planet with 2g's. (200% Earth's gravity.) Even only 1.5gs (150%). There's no way you'd move around like you do here.
Vulcan can't be THAT much bigger/more massive than Earth. Slightly, yes, but not greatly.
You're making my point for me.
For starters, Delta Vega seemed to be Earthlike. No difficulty moving, no space suits, not even masks of any kind.
If you're saying it was Vulcan's sister planet (it's apparent "moon" in TMP) that's class G, then we're not talking about that.
We're talking about Delta Vega and Vulcan, both of which appear to be class M.
Remind me...
Was DV called "class G" in WNMHGB?
Odd that Vulcan would be class M, but Detla Vega wouldn't.
Anyway, the point had to do with mass and gravity, and from what we've seen, both Vulcan and DV are close to Earth conditions in that regard. So again, two Earth type planets as close to each other as we saw in Spock's meld image...
Uh uh.
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
The new Trek movie is not canon. Its an alternate reality!
The new Trek movie is not canon. Its an alternate reality!
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
Wouldn't Delta Vega 5 be the fifth planet in the Delta Vega star system?
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
That's not what the film's makers have said about the matter of Vulcan and DV.
They admit the image of Vulcan in DV's sky was "cinematic", and worked better that way than showing Spock with some sort of long range scanner.
As already pointed out, we only saw Spock "see" the end of Vulcan in a mind meld. Who knows what really went on for Spock when it happened.
That's not what the film's makers have said about the matter of Vulcan and DV.
They admit the image of Vulcan in DV's sky was "cinematic", and worked better that way than showing Spock with some sort of long range scanner.
As already pointed out, we only saw Spock "see" the end of Vulcan in a mind meld. Who knows what really went on for Spock when it happened.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
Well if we go by the old standard of naming planets yes but i'm trying to give a reason for why it should be called Delta Vega and be located in the Vulcan system.
Well if we go by the old standard of naming planets yes but i'm trying to give a reason for why it should be called Delta Vega and be located in the Vulcan system.
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
As far as I know, planets would only get that name in lack of a better one. Is anything preventing Vulcan from being Delta Vega 4?
Well if we go by the old standard of naming planets yes but i'm trying to give a reason for why it should be called Delta Vega and be located in the Vulcan system.
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
A black hole appearing where the planet was, however, would cause problems.
No, not a sudden disappearance. If I were to stand next to you in the same room, my own gravitational pull would be stronger than the planet Jupiter's gravitational pull on you. If Jupiter suddenly disappeared, you wouldn't notice unless you were standing on one of Jupiter's moons.
A black hole appearing where the planet was, however, would cause problems.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
I'd have used Eridani 4 or whatever. Would have saved a whole lot of arguing and debating.
I'd have used Eridani 4 or whatever. Would have saved a whole lot of arguing and debating.
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
It didnt look very Earthlike to me. Looked like it was a frozen wasteland.
By the way Vulcan doesnt have any moons. Its sister planet (which is different than a moon) does have a moon.
It didnt look very Earthlike to me. Looked like it was a frozen wasteland.
I am not sure on that. But just because a planet isnt class M doesnt mean that a person can not walk around on it without breathing apparatus, etc...
I do not think it is odd that Vulcan could be class M while Delta Vega could be some other class. Look at the difference between Earth and the moon. Delta Vega clearly is large enough gravitational body to maintain an atmosphere. Though the fact that it looked like a frozen wasteland would suggest that it didnt have much of an atmosphere. (of course, we didnt see other parts of the planet but I am happy to think it all looked the same and that delta vega was the Vulcan sister planet)...
By the way Vulcan doesnt have any moons. Its sister planet (which is different than a moon) does have a moon.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
It felt just like home for me
Actually, class L through O can {barely} support life, anything else doesn't without environmental or pressured suits.
On the contrary, it requires a complex atmosphere for the weather phonomenas present to occur (high winds, snow, ...)
I don't follow. It seems to me that a more relevant comparison would be the distance between Earth and Mars, or Earth and Venus. Both these planets are quite close to Earth and are visible in the sky but only as small glimmers of light only a little larger than stars and certainly nowhere near even the moon in apparent size, let alone Vulcan as seen by Spock from DV in the current film.
As far as I can tell, the only way Delta Vega could plausibly be that close to Vulcan is if it were in orbit around Vulcan, which I don't believe is the case, though that may very well have been the original idea.
Re: Will the real Delta Vega step forward
[Khan] "THIS is Delta Vega 5!!!!!" [/Khan]
[Khan] "THIS is Delta Vega 5!!!!!" [/Khan]
There are some planets much closer to one another than Mars and Earth, and the distance is also highly variable given orbits.
Also, it's mostly the explosion of Vulcan that we saw which was powered by a black hole. I'm pretty sure we would see such afflicting Mars or even Jupiter from earth.
Well admittedly I know little about orbital mechanics, but I've seen some pretty whacky planetary systems described in astronomy in the past few years, and there are still weirder things that are possible - planetary rosettes, for instance. Or, we could just say - as the filmmakers apparently have - that it is just the dramatic/poetic representation of a memory.
My problem isn't with the location of the planet, it's with the botched naming. A Greek derived name for a planet right next to an inhabited world? Not a huge deal, I can come up with pretzel shaped rationales for it, but I do kind of want to ask Orci and Kurtzman, "Dude, the next time you try to do something nice for the fans, do it without 'moving the furniture.'"
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